The Great Maserarti Bi Turbo !!!!!!!!!!

Question,

What is it about the Bi turbo that makes it so unreliable. Is it the electronics? the build quality? I have had friends with them and they are find of fun to drive but never are reliable.

My mechanic has two of them that were "abandoned" by their owners when they broke down and the price was too high to be worth fixing. He said he cant give them away... Search Craiglist and their are multiple Bi turbos under a grand that doesn't run.



My question, Can these engines be stripped and carberated? Can the car be stripped to the chassis and be a donor car for a cool one off? Kind of like the P4/5 ... It would be a real titled, number matching Maserati but without what makes it a dud...

It might be an interesting front engine roadster...


Why are these engines so un reliable??

 

...eh..."Maserarti"?????

Ciao!
Walter

 

"What is it about the Bi turbo that makes it so unreliable."

Alejandro de Tomaso's malevolent soul lurking in the engine bay.

 

eh,, it was early... also I am well known for mis spelling my titles..

 

Ah..OK!!! :)

Ciao!
Walter

 

Ex...act....ly!!!!

The ol`bugger ripped everybody off!!! Hah!

Ciao!
Walter

 

I really don't see it that way, DeTomaso actually saved the Maserati brand after its abandonment by Citroen.

The decision to build a higher volume car in the Biturbo was dictated by the Socialist Italian Government to employ more people for its help through GEPI for DeTomaso to gain control of Maserati.

Joe

 

Joe,


1. yes it was a mistake to sell the Factory to the green-soup-company!
2. yes, DeTomaso "saved" the Maserati S.p.A.
3. yes, his decision to build mass-produced cars in bad quality ruined the excellent reputation & image Maserati once had!

You have to decide: getting bancrupt by "...the Socialist Gouverment" or by loosing your customers due to bad image, lost reputation and lousy quality!

It can be possible that someone who saves you kills you afterwards!

Ciao!
Walter

 

Buy one of those cheap cars and let us know how it turns out.

One or two spares might be a good idea.

 

I've always wondered this as well, is there a way to rebuild the motors/electrics with better, more modern equipment to make them fun and reliable?

Does it have to do with the turbos not being used/driven regularly and having issues due to under-use? I'm not 'up' on my Maserati mechanicals, just thinking out loud.

If people can rebuild 60-70's British cars to be reliable, anything should be possible

 

Exactly my thoughts... Is it possible to take the engine, strip all the electronic crap off of it and add a couple carbs, and get her running? I am not a mechanic, just curious...

 

Every Biturbo run in the 24 Hours of LeMons has finished the race, so they -can- be reliable.

Early Biturbos were carb cars, with a lovely blow-through pressurized box.

Our plan for the BiTurbo, if we can ever pick it up, is to take the turbos off and rewire the whole thing with a modern fusebox.

 

Hey Tillman, So what your saying is most of the problems you are aware of are related to the electronics (fuses etc)?

Due to the low costs, I think it would be cool to strip one down to the sub frame, and rebody some cool looking car on the chassis, not a kit car but something unique.. It would in fact still be a Maserati, but cooler... Napolis car comes to mind..

By the way anyone know if his car is titled as an Enzo ?

 

Walter,
I'll take the unfortunate route Maserati took from Citroen to DeTomaso to FIAT. Then to have the company cease to exist in the 1970's and then 30 years later having someone try and restart the brand.

Please name one car company that has had a successful relaunched after going out of business many years before? Bugatti? Maybach, Isotta Fraschini, hell even the Indian motorcycles failed and that had more going for it than any other company.

DeTomaso kept Maserati on life support to rise again and we should all be thankful.

Joe

 

i bought about eight cars! they were for tinkering. poor ol things are still sitting in my warehouse. my health crashed along with the economy. anything is fixable. is it really worth doing?

 

Want to donate them ?


I don't want to fix them but strip them to the chassis and build something unique and call it a maserati..

 

I did, have had it for 26 years and have thoroughly enjoyed it.
If you don't know how to work on them then that's your fault.

Bob S.

 

You are correct. Your are NOT a mechanic.

You guys are all way off track.
You don't have to do anything all that radical.
The fusebox is from another vehicle and the problem is that Maserati overloaded
at least one of the circuits. There is a guy who rebuilds and improves them now to eliminate this problem.

Of course Ferrari's never had such issues right? ...

 

Ok Mr. Mechanic

Are you saying that the issues with hundreds of these cars sitting in peoples lots, garages, car lots etc not running are electronic issues??

Thats good news!

 

The car had several weak spots. Unfortunately, most of them were expensive and even more unfortunately, when some of these problems were solved in later cars, it was too late. The reputation was so bad that even the good cars were tainted.

The early turbo cars blew their turbos all too often. Replacing them was a pain and expensive. This was fixed later with better bearings and better lubrication. Unfortunately, the word was out that the turbos were a problem.

The fusebox melted and shorted too easily. I don't think the engineers fully appreciated that people in America run their AC all the time or that the fans would draw such a large amount of current. The result -- melted fuseboxes (to be fair, Ferrari's of the same period had similar problems).

The water pump bearings wore out early. Unfortunately the pump was run by the timing belt so if the pump seized, the timing belt would fail. The tensioner bearing of the timing belt wasn't much better.

The car had a real problem with emissions. The carb was difficult to adjust for emissions with airbox cover on top. Often, the readings would change radically when reinstalling the airbox. Too much unburnt fuel ruined the catalytic convertors from overheating. A lot of them I saw had the convertors hollowed out instead of replacing them. Getting the car to pass emmisions was often a near kiss of death.

I would say also that the dealers were the problem. There were not enough properly trained mechanics to take care of all the problems. Waiting was too long and often the problems were not really fixed. The attitude was to get the cars out of the bays because more were coming in.

There was also a performance issue (or lack of it) for a "Maserati". Almost all of the convertibles came with a slushbox automatic whose shift points really didn't match the turbo's power band. The marketing department thought they would be competing with the Jag convertible and all Jags came with Autos. This was a big mistake as Maserati owners and Jag owners are completely different in their desires.

The ignition was really not a big deal. It was the fuse box that caused almost all of the electrical problems. Later fuse boxes were made of better materials as the problem really was with almost every car made in the first couple of years. Replacing them with a new but poorly engineered fusebox was just like putting a new time bomb in the car.

The climate control and A/C were also difficult to service. Many would just not fix it if it went out due to the cost.

So, the problems were from poor engineering, poor quality control, poor dealer service, rapid depreciation causing owners to delay maintenance and repair, and poor marketing of the car. Add it all together and you get a bad reputation. So bad that when Ferrari took over Maserati, it expressly said the Bi-Turbo would not be serviced at Ferrari/ Maserati dealers.

I don't mean to denegrate any Bi-Turbo owners who may love their cars but as an owner of a shop that fixed many of them for 10 years, I only speak the truth. And, the latter models like the 430 and 228 with fuel injection were pretty good. I had one customer with a convertible that had it from new for many years and never had a thing go wrong with it. Unfortunately, they sold it for just a few thousand (to my lead mechanic -- no one else would even make an offer) as the reputation was so trashed by then. That car got into a minor rear ender and the insurance company totaled it. Such was the fate of many a Bi-Turbo. They weren't worth fixing.

It seemed like with the later models, they did try hard to fix the problems. It was just too late.

 

Joe,
none of the manufacturers you listed made a "cheap" product! Expensive aka "glamorous" - or nothing!

If you spoil the positive image of something its VERY hard to get it back on high levels.

Yes, we have to thankfull to DeTomso that he "purchased" (he paid 1 $$) - but what he did then was from the strategic view a desaster. Ferrari had to struggle a lot to get the name & image of the brand back to where it belongs!

Ciao!
Walter

 

Perhaps (!) more in parts than together!

Ciao!
Walter

 

I have an 89 Spyder and it is a very enjoyable car. It will kick a Porsche 911 all day long. If you cannot turn a wrench or find a solution to a mechanical problem look for a different car.

A later Maserati Bi-Turbo is a very enjoyable car with great bang for the buck. The engines are virtually bullet proof, the electrics have some problems, but no more so than my Ferrari, (sold).

Get a '89 or up and if you can buy a Shamal that is the business!!!!

I suggest one should buy a Dodge Dart with a /6 or a Toyota Corolla, if you can't turn a wrench.

~Ciao

 

+++1!!!
A perfect list of the Biturbo-desaster!!
DeTomaso clearly overstreched the still small company by building so many unreliable cars and throwing them on the international market.

Ciao!
Walter

 

I think you have to include Qvale (the US importer) as also part of the problem.