Installing Stoptech brakes

Wow! do they fit under standard wheels mate? They look great!

 

Bob- Those are really attractive and look like they will really stop the car. A big improvement and way bigger than stock at 355 mm and 330 mm. Bigger than what is on my Maranello (330 mm and 310 mm).

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

LOOKING GOOD!!!

 

....... .......... awesome !!! ......... love the neutral anodize ....... very 'tech' looking ........

 

How much do these cost?

 

I have them on my M3 and love them!
Your braking will never be the same!

 

Someone school me on big brakes!!!! Billy maybe you can give some insights since you actually have big brakes. So here is what I think either myth or legend you guys tell me.

1) if you can get into ABS on say a 13" rotor and 14" rotor will not decrease your stoppong distance.

2) big brakes are really about having more metal to increase heatcapacity so that brakes can survive the heat of the service required.

3) Corrollary to this is big brakes do you know good if you are not going to beat on them to the limit and your little brakes therefore may be just fine for street or light track duty

4) big front brakes may increase stop distances because they can upset the bias and thus the results of weight transfer and make ABS go wacky and increase stopping distances.

So if any of this is true why go 14" vs 13"? I would say a 13" thicker rotor would be better than 14" rotor if you can get to ABS with the 13" A 14" offers more torque but your limit is ABS anyway so they do not help you. OK so what is wrong with my statements above? I must be wrong everyone and racers too always go bigger? There must be something I am missing

 

ABS should only activate when the wheel actually 'locks-up'. It is not brake fluid 'pressure' activated, it should use a speed sensor on the hub as a trigger.

 

Roundel article (the BMW club magazine) compared stock E36 M3 brakes with two larger aftermarket brake kits (I can't recall, but I think it was Brembo and Stoptech). In any case, stopping distances (again, if I can recall correctly) were slightly longer with the bigger brakes. This would be a result of pad compounds more than anything else. On the track, though, they resisted fade better.

My very unlearned theory about the advantages of big brakes (and big rotors) is the following:

1) Greater thermal mass allows for better heat management under extreme (e.g. track) conditions.

2) Pad changeover can be easier.

3) Pad compound selection can be greater.

4) Clamping force can ultimately be greater (which can be an issue with huge slicks).

5) Modulation or balance characteristics can be changed from stock (although you can do that with pad compounds as well).

6) Caliper flex (which can lead to pad taper) can be less.

Most, if not all of the above things matter little to at all on the street. Of course, giant wheels with little tiny discs behind them don't exactly look good.

I have never raced, but have done a ton of track days. I have always had more than adequate braking and balance, without any fade, and I have always been able to achieve that with appropriate pad compound selection. But, the underlying caliper (BMW M, Porsche, Lotus/AP racing, Ferrari/Brembo) has always been decent to start with.

S

 

Nice !

 

Yes this is a funny effect that can happen with BBK so I have heard. BBK makers can fool you by setting up the feel of the brake to have more initial bite but not have anymore deceleration which is what you want eventhough in theory BBK make more brake torque. Pads can most certainly be an issue but sometimes the improper sizing of calipers change bias and how the front and rear work together and that can effect the stopping distances. Fade resistance and longevity are expected with BBK's. While most of us know the front does most of the work the rears are very important as is the dynamics of weight shift at speed and the interaction of ABS systems that all cars have today all contributing to stopping distances. I don't know what a deceleration curve would look like but that is important too. Ultimate stopping distance may not be as imprtant as the deceleration curve BBk vs. Stock.

 

BillyBob,
I am no technical genius by any means but all that has been stated by you and others is true...except the stopping distance. I knew the Stoptechs had a far superior advantage to my stock E46 brakes the first time I went to bed the pads in. As far as stopping...well the first time I 'really' used them was at Road America and almost put my front teeth through the windshield on the first hard braking.
-Yes, they look awesome
-Yes, the pad swap is easy taking 20 minutes for both fronts including jacking and lugs
-Yes, they run ALL day without fade using Motul fluid (and being a better driver)
-Yes, modulation is fantastic
-ABS is turned off
Other stuff:
-I run Cobalt Friction on the track and Porterfield R4S street. The best pads IMHO.
-265/35/18 SSR all 4 corners for the track, 285/30/19 stock upgrade M3 street
-I did have aftermarket suspension (sways, strut, springs, coilovers, urth bushings), put on the same time I did the brake swap from stock, all which aid in the total slowing and control of the car.
In closing, the E46 M3 is an amazing car on the street and track and a great big brother to my F355.
-Billy
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Fantastic, that looks awesome!

 

billyfitness--I don't want to start an argument, and on your particular E46 the stopping may really have been improved, but you didn't necessarily do the correct test (meaning you may not have controlled for the variable of pad compound). If you put Cobalt Friction (I agree, awesome pads)--say XR2's, in your stock BMW calipers and they didn't stop your car nearly as well as the big brake kit, then what you say is true but unusual. Or, if you had the same exact compound in your stock calipers, and then in your BBK, and the BBK stopped better, also true. Usually, though, pad compound changes, and thus renders any direct comparison between stopping effectiveness somewhat moot.

Having said that, more thermal mass is an absolute advantage in terms of repeated stopping performance.

 

Hey, no arguments, we are all here to learn, right?
True enough, what you say, but I did run C.F. pads in the stock calipers as well, though, the previous compound to the XR2, which I now run. So, as you say, it is moot.
Also moot is/was my driving experience at that time: little track exp, usually poor & over-braking.
But, even under casual-sometimes-agressive-around-town-braking, same compound: Porterfield R4S, Stoptech has the advantage over stock calipers....in my subjective opinion.
I guess the only true test is same pad comp. on stock and post-Stoptech, same driver, same speed & stopping distance, car paint color, daytime temp, etc...
Be that as it may, I would wager to say the Stoptechs are a heck of an upgrade!
-Billy

 

Holy cow those look good!!!

:drool:

 

First of all--on topic--the brakes look unbelievable awesome. My posts on BBKs come from my experiences as an HPDE instructor. There are certainly reasons to put on a BBK (you have a very heavy car/poor factory brakes, you want every last tenth of a second in lap times, you drive on a very high speed track, you have bigger wheels and your factory brakes look horribly tiny, you like the way they look in general, you have the money, etc.).

My beef is with those who say BBK significantly improve braking performance on the street--they, in general, don't. Further, for many cars at many tracks, a good brake bleed, proper high temp fluid, possibly stainless steel brake lines, instruction in proper braking technique, track specific pads, AND appropriate slow lap or paddock driving cool downs and stock brake calipers will often perform well, especially if tracking is a several time/year event.

 

looks nice! which hre is that?

 

Now those are what I call BRAKES! Nice!

 

One thing I don't believe was mentioned as an advantage for braking performance is the mechanical advantage of making the clamping point on the rotor (in relation to the center of the hub) is further away. With all things equal, it will take less clamping force to stop the rotor as the caliper moves away from the center of the rotor. HTH