This is my first entry into one of these threads.... First things first. I've always liked both FM and FA but for different reasons. I don't understand a few of you making comments that FM is not a team player. He's sat in the number two seat and done what was asked of him for years. The only comment I can make on what happened today is that he could have waited until they got to traffic and given the illusion that FA got by because of traffic management or perhaps slowed slightly to let FA get closer and then gone wide in a turn to let FA by. The way he let him by is the only issue I have with what happened. The team told FM to extend the lead and he couldn't. They made the decision to let FA go. Had they let them race and something similar to what happened with the RedBull cars happened you guys (and me) would be going crazy. Ferrari's job (racing wise) is to win titles and if you have a better chance with one driver than the other, then you need to go with your best bet. Now, if you really want to eliminate team orders there's a very simple solution. Limit the team to only one car...... Short of that, there will be team decisions (orders) that will affect the finishing position of it's drivers. Don't slam Ferrari for not hiding it.
No, it's not the only way. Just award drivers points equally to teams that finish 1/2. Give the victory to the guy that comes in first. Think of the times when a driver is third while he teammate is leading. He's going to try everything to get into second because it's a huge differnence in points for him if he does so. If you do this, then it makes the drivers act like a team, which is what the manufacturer's championship is all about -- a team "winning".
Ok, that could work as well. In your example both the cars would get the same points as the leading car..... I think I like that.......
Maybe he did not need to go faster, because he was leading anyway? Even if Alonso was pushing hard, he could not pass Massa immediately. BTW, i´m a true Alonso fan. Regards, e
No, he was asked to go faster and he fell back. You can't say the team didn't warn him or push him on. They didn't say he had some silly problem like "brakes" or "fuel" to get him to go slower. If Massa was so "upset" at the decision and he was so "wronged", then why didn't he follow right behind Alonso's tail the rest of the race? Instead, he almost lost second to Vettel.
Why do you think that Massa and Alonso would have collided? Are either one of them such bad drivers? Of course, it was Alonso that ran into Massa before, but.......And if they did, yes Vettel would deserve the win. It sounds like the rules of the sport apply to all teams except Ferrari? I just can't agree with your assessment, a rule, no matter how stupid, is a rule.
The earlier comment by Smedley about 'concentrate, you can win this, etc' was the first act of the play, designed to make it look as though they were letting them race. It was obvious then that they would arrange for Alonso to pass - because he couldn't do it otherwise. The whole speed differential was nonsense. --- tifosi12 >Alonso was faster, which he showed by pulling away. funny. Obviously, Massa was slower which he showed by slowing down. >If the race had lasted somewhat longer, Vettel would have beaten Massa. funny x2 or x3 or ... If the race had lasted somewhat longer, Massa would have needed to slow down less to make Alonso appear faster, consequently the same scenario would have been extended over a longer period. >Prohibiting team orders is stupid. Prohibiting appearances would be funny. Ask yourself - even if you had categorical proof that all of the races are largely predetermined, wouldn't you still watch it? e.g. Gödel - there is no contradiction between free will and knowing in advance what someone will do.
Agree... current tire rule is STUPID. I wonder how kind people would be if a team chose to not change tires because they didn't need to...
I think they should get rid of every team that uses "team orders". Just kick them out and let the teams who don't rum the races.-----ooh wait there wouldn't be any teams left. Every team has team orders for every race. It's called a game plan. They are TEAMS.
Just a few weeks ago we all laughed at how stupid Red Bull was for allowing it's first and second place drivers to crash. Accidents happen no matter how good the drivers. It's a team sport. Having a team rule against team "orders" is in directly conflict of that.
Since the teams have the right to implement any rule they like if they are unanimous, it would be trivial for them to make team orders legal, and they would all do it since they all use them to their advantage. But that's never happened. Wonder why.
Looks like a penatly has already been handed down http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/6279027/Ferrari-Handed-Fine-Results-Stand J
That is what i actually meant - it was a difficult task, to overtake Massa and to push harder would have propably meant alot of risk in return for both Ferraris; that Alonso was faster and is the quicker and more capable driver - no dought about it from my point of view
To paraphrase Inspector Renault I am shocked, shocked, to find out that there are team orders in F1! Once again we see that Ferrari can F' up a wet dream.
The only thing they "F'up" was doing it so sloppily. McLaren would have done the same thing only better.
Wasn't that what I said? Its almost as if they're being fined for being too Latin "I don't object to a thief. Its a cut rate thief that bothers me" Sam Spade
And if they had done it this way, they would at the very least be excluded from the race and fined $10M....
Krafty, at your benign level of comprehthththtension drinknig w ll baer l ttle 2 no efecct. Your Queens Anglitsch is so utterly and naturally deformed, we sometimes email it to friends in Dublin for chuckles. Best find a post to '+1' and 'me too' so you can feel like your self. >I think they should get rid of every team that uses "team orders". Just kick them out >and let the teams who don't rum the races.-----ooh wait there wouldn't be any teams >left. Every team has team orders for every race. It's called a game plan. They are TEAMS. If every race something like today's team game plan transpired there would be no F1. The whole 'team' routine is nonsense. What transpired today is anti-team and anti-sport. The fact that MS supports it should be reason enough to question it.
http://www.planetf1.com/news/18227/6278821/Domenicali-denies-any-wrongdoing "Massa made a small mistake when shifting up three gears at once." I don't even think it was Massa's mistake. Everybody who reads the 360/430 forum knows those F1 gearboxes are prone to doing things like that all by themselves.
