German GP: If You Were The FIA....(SPOILER)

you think ferrari would have learned from 2002... I truly hate team ordered... Either way ferrari would have been 1-2 & gotten max. point for the team. I think they should be hammered for this stunt... I'm a Tifosi Supporter !!!!

 

I believe Ferrari will loose all points from this race as the FIA will want to make a point.

Silly stuff Ferrari.
Pete

 

Yet another asterisk in the Ferrari record book?

Most any team can win a GP.
A few can score a one-two.
It takes a really great team to screw up like this.

 

I agree. I think Ferrari will lose all points from this race.

I kind of feel for Massa but at the same time Ferrari desperately needed these points and Alonso was the only one that could have realistically benefited from them.

I say DQ Ferrari from this race and move on. It happens every race weekend but rarely is it so plainly obvious. Massa could have easily won this race and I think the proper way to go about this was to let Alonso see if he could catch Massa first, then tell Massa that Alonso was going to overtake.

 

Should have just let Massa win ... if he was going to. Lots of points for Ferrari and Alonso, and a lot better than 0.

Pete

 

I'm perfectly fine with penalizing the team. But, I'm hard pressed to find why so many want to penalize Alonso. Just what did he do wrong? Nothing as far as I can see.

 

If you don't penalise Alonso (and Massa) then you don't actually penalise the team. Remember the WDC is what they are after so you have to take away the points that matter and thus fining the team means nothing, thus race points have to be removed

And no point just taking points away from the manufacturers championship, because winning the WDC is from a marketing and ego point of view what it is all about.
Pete

 

He stole a race victory he didn't earn.

Oh, and before it happened he whined about it like a baby too.

>8^)
ER

 

Well, if you REALLY want to be fair then, you should just reverse the results. Isn't that the point? I don't see why you want to penalize the players for just doing what the management wants. If Alonso never passed Massa, there would be no big deal, right?

Give Massa the victory and take away the team points. That to me seems the most fair.

 

And Goring, Borman, Himmler, Mengele, et-al, were "Just following orders."


VERY Harsh comparison but I think it makes the point.



If you follow an UNLAWFUL order .......................

 

I haven't read all the posts so apologise if I am repeating something that has been said already.
Team orders are used either by code or openly as Ferrari have appeared to do. Personally I think it is a silly rule, pretty much unenforceable and should be abolished.
However Ferrari have been caught out and the team should be penalised.

 

Whoa.
This is a sport. You know, fun.
Sometimes we lose sight of that.

 

Not harsh -- ridiculous and way over the top.

So, Massa should be penalized for moving over if told to? Now, that's just undefensible.

This is the big leagues.

 

Very sensible.

 

And they have been. Dunno what $100k means to 'em, but the stewards (?) decided that was the penalty.....

Now, they may yet still get dragged in front of the WMSC, but we'll see on that one.

Does anyone remember the *howls* of disgust aimed at the FIA for changing the results after the fact?.... I can't believe some want them DQ'd! Dayum! [I *really* dislike Mclaren, but I wouldn't want 'em excluded for what went down today for example....]

Cheers,
Ian

 

Exactly, get rid of that little **** Massa for jeopardizing the team!

 

Because that twirp Massa only got the lead because of Vettel's boneheaded move. Alonso should have past him, but it seems he was worried about contact when Ferrari was leading 1-2. Alonso is no Kimi, the twirp still does not realize he is a number 2. Ferrari was absolutely correct and does not deserve any penalty. Alonso was faster all weekend.

 

Maybe you mail Ferrari your sig: "the journey, not the destination"
and see what you get back.





bdelp

>So, Massa should be penalized for moving over if told to? Now, that's just undefensible.


Why indefensible?

Although I support Massa, he is not an object.
He made a decision to partake in the manipulation of the results.

If he had the bottle he would have pulled an LH swivel and driven away.
But he's not the type.

 

I disagree. I think, if anything, that they will take away the constructors points, not the points from the drivers. This was a decision made by the team principal, not the drivers...
This is all just speculation but hopefully they will learn some sort of lesson from all this and hopefully Massa wont have to pay for it with his points, due to team orders....

 

[
Why indefensible?

Although I support Massa, he is not an object.
He made a decision to partake in the manipulation of the results.

If he had the bottle he would have pulled an LH swivel and driven away.
But he's not the type.[/QUOTE]

He was just doing what the management told him to do. Can you imagine what would have happened to him if he NOT done it?

He's under contract to follow what the team feels is best. Get it... contract. You want to drive -- you want to get paid -- you do what the team tells you to do. Otherwise, go hitch a ride somewhere.

That's reality.

 

Just finished watching the race, here's my 2 cents....

The rule is stupid, BUT it IS a rule. It's clear that Massa was told to move over "Do you understand the message?", "Good job mate, sorry", etc.

Assuming I was the FIA I'd dock Alonso 5 secs, dock both cars 10 spots in hungary, and call it a day. Harsh? Yep, but if you're going to have a rule, it should be enforced. 100k to an F1 team is nothing. Ferrari spends 100k before breakfast on a race weekend!

That all being said, abolish the rule. It's going to happen regardless, despite the fact that I wish the boys coulda raced.

At least the Red Bull boys got to race it out in turkey.....

 

I agree Vettel's move was dangerous and boneheaded. If I were Red Bull, I would really sit this guy down for a talk. It's not the first time. He should just concentrate on getting a great start and stop worrying about how he's going to block others.

I also agree that Massa does not understand that he is number 2. But, that's not Massa's fault. That's his manager's fault and the team's fault. They have a contract with him. If he doesn't want to play with that contract, then Ferrari can find someone who can. THAT needs to be explained.

Alonso may have been quicker all weekend but that does not give Ferrari the right to just give him a victory for nothing. IMO, Alonso is also to blame for not challenging Massa more and just waiting for the team to say "that's enough Massa. you've had your fun".

 

Dock Alonso 5 seconds for what? Send him down 10 places for doing what?

The only person who needs "sorting out" over this is Rob Smedly & I expect Ferrari will take care of that on Monday morning. He (purposefully) made a complete dog's breakfast of issuing a simple instruction that happens week in, week out in F1. What happened today was no worse than what we see regularly where drivers from the same team suddenly "call it off" 10 laps from home.

 

IMO
I don't think they should get a penalty at all. They were fighting each other not Redbull or any other team at the time of the pass.
Massa should of moved and unlike Webber he did, and did what was right for the team...

 

You (we) don't know what was said over the radio between Alonso & the Team:

Something perhaps along the lines of "Right I've saved my tyres a bit & saved a bit of fuel, so in two laps time I'm going after him......"

Ferrari knew the score & there is just no way they were going to be able to stop Alonso going after Massa. He proved that by dropping back & then catching him again he could go quicker at will & everyone knows he is no shrinking violet when it comes to overtaking.

Massa on the other hand is not quite so dependable in defence & has been known to bang wheels etc on more than one occasion. Ferrari needed 45 points today. All they did was make sure they got them.