FORMULA 1 GROSSER PREIS SANTANDER VON DEUTSCHLAND 2010: RACE *** Spoilers ***

Reality, the existing rule is no "team orders". If you do not like the rule you petition to have it changed. But if you break that rule, go to Hell and suffer the consequences. Ferrari deserves every bit of penalty they are given. And I hope it is big time.

If you follow racing, there are rules, doesn't matter which team or driver you like, they must follow the rules. Get over it, your team screwed up big time so they need to be penalized. The rules are not for all the other teams and not Ferrari. At this point, Ferrari has proven to be a sh*t team. They deserve sh*t. I feel sorry for Massa, he deserves being on a team much better the fu*k*n* Ferrari.

 

And all real race fans think the same.

 

You miss the point. Rules. Ferrari is not above the rules. Doesn't matter if the rule is "stupid". Its the current rule.

If the car in front of Massa was not his teammate, he would have to fight for position, and doubtful he would have passed that car at the Hock.

Do you not care about the rules?

Give it up, Alonso victory was purchased for $100,000, not won. I hope the MSWC throws out that win. Alonso did not deserve it. None of your arguments work.

None.

 

Boring race. Bring back old Hockenheimring!

Ferrari deserves to be dropped from the Constructors championship.


As a fan, the race would have been better if Alonso had to catch and pass Massa. But it was obvious he couldn't, as the one time he tried, couldn't, and preceded to whine like a baby. I am seeing a trend with Alonso, if the race isn't given to him on a gold platter, he cries like 14 year old girl after losing her first boyfriend.

Red Bull won't win because championships are won on bad days, and they are not doing well enough on 'bad days' to win it.

Mclaren got lucky the Red Bulls couldn't do any better.

Anyone else didn't have a chance as if you didn't drive a disgraceful red car, RB, or Mclaren, you didn't even finish on the lead lap. Everyone else has a lot of work to do.

Alex

 

I would have said a 13 year old girl, but I will not argue with you. Alonso is s**t.

 

Won't happen. FORZA FERRARI FORZA ALONSO!

(You know, the Ferrari F1 driver that has actually earned a shot at the title this year).

 

I just feel so bad for Felipe. What a comeback story it would have been if he were allowed to win today.

I hope that today's resumts fires Felipe up like there's no tomorrow. I hope he sets pole at the next grand prix.

 

OK. So, explain how Red Bull switches parts from one car to the other to give one an advantage over the other. Isn't that purchasing the victory? What about these "hey, you're short of fuel" and then a few laps later "your fuel is OK" stuff?

You act like this is the first time this has happened. Baloney. It happens all the time because it's in direct conflict with the sport. THAT is the point. You can't have the sport mean one thing and then put in a rule that violates that very purpose. You're going to get all sorts of bending of the rules.

The only thing Ferrari is guilty of is making it look obvious and not training Massa on how to be a good liar.

Hey, I'm Ok with taking away points from the team. But, how about a little investigation into some of these other "weird" events when two teammates are battling?

 

Arrogant comment, as if your little views somehow encompass when you deem to be a "real" race fan.

 

Indeed - just think of what a difference the headlines could have been today. Just think about the amount of support and good will for Ferrari that kind of story could have generated for them?

Let's go back to December 2009:

Ferrari have not had the season they would have hoped for but these words Montezemolo mean less than nothing after today.

>8^)
ER

 

I was thinking that, in response to that call, I'd have replied,
"You want me to go faster? How far back is Vettel? Is he gaining?"

(Vettel was 6+ seconds behind the Ferraris on lap 48.)


However; there certainly did seem to be an issue with Massa's car on the hard compound. He was fighting with it.

That just makes it all the more inexcusable that Massa was given a call to move aside ... when Alonso hadn't been closer than 0.9 sec behind anytime in the previous 20 laps. Alonso should have been able to dust off Felipe while Massa was fighting the tires.

But maybe we're missing something, here. Maybe Alonso was under team orders to stay away from Massa --- every time Alonso gets close to Massa, he seems to punt Felipe off the track. (That's one reason Felipe is down on points.)

So maybe they had to issue team orders to sort the positions, because they'd already issued team orders to the "gorilla" driver to stop attacking his own teammate on track.

(Anyone see Paul Tracy doing his Ben Hur chariot race schtick on other cars' tires in Edmonton?)
(Another race with a depressing ending.)

 

Sure it's a 1-2 for Ferrari, but I personally favor Massa over Alonso. Had it not been for Vettel's reckless move at the start I'm certain Alonso would've gained the first corner and stayed out front but as it was, he did not. Alonso should have been made to earn the position.

And I'm still waiting for the quite frankly racist LH bashers to say anything about Vettel's move on Alonso at the start. Had that been Hamilton putting Alonso in the wall like that we'd never hear the end of it.

 

True.

But lets face it if this race was not overshadowed by the Ferrari team orders we would be trashing Vettel for that immature move at the start.
Pete

 

You care who wins ??? Right, as long as it isn't Alonso. We get it, you don't like Alonso, so you aren't Tifosi and neither are your so called "Italian" friends. So, you've got an itch ? scratch it man !

If you don't think that Zo would have passed Massa then your just kidding yourself, it would have been ugly, and could have ended badly. What the team did today made perfect sense, if Massa was faster we wouldn't be talking about it. Massa was told to get on with it, he couldn't do it, if he continued to hold up Alonso, all that would have done is bring the redbull forward giving Vettel a shot at the win. Team strategy will ALWAYS be a part of this sport, rules or no rules, Massa needs to pick up the pace if he wants any glory.

 

Lol, you can't be serious...

So if I hate LH it is because he is black? All those Alonso haters must hate him because he is Spanish!

 

All excellent points and true.

 

i think there are too many races left in the season for this rubbish to be taking place at this point in time.

if alonso is good enough there are plenty of points left for him to take the title.

 

In 2000, maybe. Today, no.

The Ferraris were 6+ sec ahead of the competition, and they have to preserve their engines and gearboxes for the rest of the season.
(Remember how many mills Alonso has lunched?)

If Ferrari has a 1-2, there's no point risking engines, gearboxes, wheels, or a collision fighting over which one finishes first, when the WDC lead has almost as many points as the two Ferrari drivers combined.

The points difference between Alonso and Massa are trivial, compared to the points difference between Alonso and either McLaren driver.

And if Alonso is so good that he "deserves" to always be ahead, then he should be able to get there on his own, *without* having to punt his teammate off the track, or cut corners to get ahead.
But we haven't seen that, this year.

In the past, the driver who is out front after the last pit gets to stay there, ... Until Monza.
That's the transition to the "home stretch", where Ferrari typically designates one driver to "go for it", and team orders come into play.

Except during the Schumi years, where it was all the Schumi show. And the team orders in Austria '02 were equally stupid. Which is what caused the "no team orders" rule in the first place ... by demonstrating that the teams weren't limiting themselves to team orders that made sense.

When the WDC is in a close competition in the closing races, team orders makes sense.
When other cars are closing in on the leaders, you might select one car to play the "wide car" to block while letting the other get out ahead.

But designating one driver to *always* finish ahead of the other, no matter what, is just declaring the team a one car entry.
And makes the show boring for the audience.

 

Lol, everyone forgets about Indy 2003 where MS gifted a win to Rubens...

 

as 'average' as FA has been this year (according to you) the team STILL favored him this race, and looking forward favored HIS odds of winning the WDC over Massa's. crying about it all day long won't change the fact that Ferrari is backing FA as its best bet. are you unhappy because they're doing it 'too soon' (according to you) ??? eh, cry on...

 

Well it certainly proves that where the FA goes...there is controversy!

McLaren = Spygate

Renault = Crashgate

Ferrari = Hey...what should this be called?


Pass-gate...Whine-gate...Santander-gate?...Dummyspit-gate?

 

Just posting this here as well, since it seems two threads are going with the same subject:

Hahah I am shocked at the suggestions here. DQ the Team? Alonso? How long have you been watching F1? Racing? Being Ferrari fans.

Remember Fangio not only was allowed to win thanks to his team mates he TOOK OVER his team mate's cars.

If Enzo was still alive he would be screaming over the radio for Massa to move over. I think if you are going to be a Ferrari fan you must at least understand the Enzo way of doing things. The Enzo Character, thats one of the things that makes Ferrari Ferrari.

Now this team orders things are not things of Ferrari only. As many have explained the "No Lewis, Button will not pass you" issue in Turkey, and if someone was paying attention in this very same GP. How is this different than what Red Bull did with its front wing?

At the beginning of the championship Massa ended up in front of Alonso. It was hard for Alonso to pass him even if he was the faster car. No orders but it seemed that Alonso could have done more in that position.

Now Alonso is, even with the win Far behind Lewis for the Championship. Massa is basically out of contention it was a no brainer. Honestly, with the position he was in he didn't needed a hint. I would have moved over, subtle or not I would understand the position the team is in. He was asked to moved he definitely slowed down more on purpose so that people would see his sad puppy face and feel sorry for him. I would just make the situation very clear now, in this championship, at this time YOU are 2nd driver. In 2008 you where First driver, now you are not, that how things are. If you don't like it, lets see how many teams will hire you as first driver.

I for one, am pleased to see that there is some character still in Ferrari, that Italian flair that Enzo had in its day. Ayrton had its character, Lauda had its Character, Prosts, Schumacher. Its like Zidane in the 2006 final, smart? no.

What some people don't understand in Ferrari is that neither Alonso nor Massa have to win the Drivers championship. There is a time to be fast and there is a time to be smart. It was obvious what had to be done.

I am pretty sure that Ferrari will be punished, not doubt about it. There will be more to come, and that is the difference. Ferrari did the straight, no bull approach. Lewis is the FIA/British pet now, they will help him get more points.

Whats different from Hamilton having its character, its not but its kinda different saying "I didnt knew I was not supposed to lie, or pass the safety car, or many other things". Than saying "We told Felipe who was fastest" Simple absolute truth.

I hate all these new Ferrari fanboys that came in the last few years. You root for the Prancing Horse, not for Felipe or Alonso.


Just to add a bit more, its Ferrari and its sponsors the one that pay the drivers as well, they are their employees. If drivers do not like what the team choose then perhaps they should form their own team. And yes none of the drivers in the field have a character as in the old days, perhaps just Schumacher. Hopefully the resurrection of Nuvolari is due soon.

 

don't you think that racist nonsense is getting a bit tiring? I've been watching F1 for about 25 years and criticised lots of drivers, including LH, and don't feel I'm a racist at all. Being part of a minory doesn't trump all the other cards. I recognize that LH is a great pilot and is the number one in the championship right now because of his own merits, but that doesn't change the fact that he's been favored in most steward decisions in the last years. If you cross check his sanctions with any other pilot in the top five, he's the one that always gets the best part.
And I don't think it has anything to do with racism or bigotry. He looks the FIA pretty boy and there's people that just don't like that, as there are people that don't like Alonso, and I'm not going to call them racists because of that.

 

'Those were the days, eh'

Those days are over. Those nostalgic for tradition should
check a village or religion and leave sports alone.



> for one, am pleased to see that there is some character still in Ferrari,
>that Italian flair that Enzo had in its day.


Prostitution is not character it's corruption.
Sorry old bastards that stifle competition
and think that clinging to outdated practices is 'character'

If you must have that 'character' read a book.
This is sports not an idyllic old world construct.




>Ayrton had its character, Lauda had its Character, Prosts, Schumacher. Its like Zidane in >the 2006 final, smart? no.

Now, a Zidane head butt on Domenicali would be cool.



>What some people don't understand in Ferrari is that neither Alonso nor Massa have to >win the Drivers championship. There is a time to be fast and there is a time to be >smart. It was obvious what had to be done.

http://www.football-pictures.net/data/media/256/Materazzi-Refree.jpg



>I hate all these new Ferrari fanboys that came in the last few years. You root for the Prancing Horse, not for Felipe or Alonso.
Just to add a bit more, its Ferrari and its sponsors the one that pay the drivers as well, they are their employees. If drivers do not like what the team choose then perhaps they should form their own team. And yes none of the drivers in the field have a character as in the old days, perhaps just Schumacher. Hopefully the resurrection of Nuvolari is due soon.[/QUOTE]


That movie is over John Wayne. Time to switch to some new and improved appearances
and gullibloons or better yet try reality.


And yep, Schumacher is a dino from all pov's.
That epoch has passed ... although Berlusconi is adamant it hasn't.

Best drivers in the field are Kubica and LH.

 

We should call it Pablum gate because no matter where Alonso goes he puts pressure on the team with his constant whinnning so the teams have to appease him by getting out the pablum. Once the bottle is in his mouth he is quiet for a while. Yesterday Ferrari put the pablum in the bottle (Massa you know that Alonso is faster than you right? You understand?) and then Massa put the bottle in Alonsos mouth when he let him pass. Maybe Alonso could bring in more sponsorship monies by getting a baby formula company or a diaper company to sponor him and Ferrari.