Pictures are always worth 1000 words and a 1/2 victory has never looked this embarassing, at least not since 2002. Cal Lightman could use this image to show shame, regret, and disgust all at the same time. >8^) ER Image Unavailable, Please Login
But how dumb are they? Couldn't they have talked in code with Massa telling him to conserve some fuel? Come on.. AMATEUR MISTAKE
I'm not satisfied with these sham results from yesterday's race and will continue to chastize Ferrari for it up until and perhaps even after the WMSC makes their decisions. If you're not interested in reading my comments put me on Ignore. = = = = = The BBC interview with Stefano Domenicali shortly after the race is on YouTube for now. I know some people were eager to see it so get it before they take it down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPms0Mj0E_U Here's the Smedley interview as well, but the interviewer failed to press the issue like I think he should have and we hear from a very different Rob than the one who said "Sorry" to Massa after he gave up the position. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQmxrUE4MTg >8^) ER
That wont change a thing. Just look at the pic above. Looks like they just handed out the trophys for 23rd and 24th places.
Great video. Its nice to see that Stefano even gave the interview and seemed to have a little fun at it but I think it was more to cover up the seriousness of what just happened. the best part was when Stefano said that Massa was slower and Eddie said show us the proof and there is none. That said it all.
FA controlled FM however he wanted. If he wanted to be close he was close. If he wanted to protect the car he was a little further behind. Massa wasn't faster than him. But he was ready to risk both cars to prevent FA from overtaking.
Now back to reality. Massa turned quite a few fastest laps. If Alonso was so fast and could control FM then maybe he should have made a pass while sitting behind for 40 some odd laps. Fact is that Massa was faster yesterdayand the lap times proved it.
The disturbing part is when Alonso said 'this is ridiculous'when he was behind Massa (so f-ing pass him!) that set off a chain reaction of stupid comments & moves by Ferrari. So 9 races in and the same pattern has continued. Where Alonso goes, controversy always follows. He is talented and fast, but again divides a team and it's fans....
Agreed. Alonso just needs to shut the F^5* up and drive the damn car! Anyone can talk the talk or b!tch about things... Show what you got behind the wheel, not behind the headset and your mouth.....
Totally different situation. First of all, I don't believe it was team orders at play with McLaren OR Red Bull. Some folks find it beyond belief that it could be possible that Hamilton had to turn down his engine settings a couple laps before Button and that Webber had to do it before Vettel. However, this is just a case of people believing something because they want to, not because the facts support it, because they don't. If Hamilton was the chosen one at McLaren, then Button wouldn't have had the result he has had, he would have been ordered to surrender the position to Hamilton, but that didn't happen. Same with Webber at Red Bull - he has been allowed to beat Vettel when it would have been trivial to tell him to let Vettel buy, but that never happened. It is more likely that what the teams said is true - Button had a little more fuel than Hamilton, but had a very limited window in which to make a pass. He tried, Hamilton took it back, and that was that. Same with Red Bull, except they crashed each other out. Second, the rule is that "team orders that affect the outcome of a race are banned". Not that any team order is banned. There is a big difference between telling a driver to switch to a different fuel strategy when he is behind his teammate and telling a driver to move over and swap places with his teammate behind him. There is a world of difference between the two. Can anyone think of any situation in the past 10 years when a driver *moved aside* and let his teammate past? I can think of a few... -Kimi moving aside for Massa in 08 -Massa moving aside for Kimi in 07 -Massa moving aside for Alonso this past weekend -Barrichello moving aside for Schumi back in '02 Anyone remember any other incidents where the leading driver moved aside to let the following driver take the place? I'm talking situations where the leading driver was faster, led the majority of the race, then "suddenly" slowed and let his teammate take the position? I only recall Ferrari doing this. And that is a manipulation of race results. It is very much different than simply turning down your engine setting, which even *if* it was a team order designed to secure the leaders position, isn't really against the rules. Telling a driver to move aside to let his teammate take the spot IS against the rules.
Massa and Rob Smedley are a team, like any other driver has his own race engineer. Normally wherever the driver goes, his race engineer follows. A race engineers' job is to make sure his driver does the best of job he can do. They're a team within a team, so to say (and this is with ALL the drivers). Domenicalli needs to manage both these teams, but he's decided FAR to early on that Massa should be the second driver. As I've said a few times now, it's completely accepted to let a teammate pass in the following situations: -The faster driver is SIGNIFICANTLY faster (not trading fastest laps, then dropping off, then unable to pass, or just a couple of hundreds every few laps...I'm talking about being .25 > a lap and .5> when in clear air, this wasn't the case) than his teammate in front -The driver behind his teammate is much further ahead in points (wasn't the case) and he's fighting for the WDC (erm not really the case when you're in 5th) -just a few more races to go and the driver behind could grab more points/minimize damage, and mathematically speaking, the driver ahead has to few points to really count himself in the championship race What Domenicalli did, so early on in the championship, was basically a massive F U to Massa, a kick in the nuts and basically told him ''you're not worth a ******* ****, you are Alonso's servant''. Of course Smedley wasn't happy with this, NO ONE would be. He publicly told Massa how he felt (more or less). Let's put it another way: you're a sales manager and you're about to sign a deal, which would could see your status rise in the company and make a bunch of money. But just before making the deal, the head of department tells you to stand down and let that arrogant prick who had everything handed on a silver platter because his uncle has a lot of important influences take all the glory instead... Sure, your department still manages to meet its quarterly target, but at your expense. Again. Would you be happy with this?
I like to see drivers race. Webber and Vettel did. Hamilton and Button did. Sometimes drivers hit each other while racing. Boo hoo. The only team order should be: race as hard as you want, but don't take each other out. That order will sometimes be ignored. Again, boo hoo. I like to see racing drivers race. Alonso & Massa both lost, Alonso for not living up to his salary and no 1 status by passing a lesser driver, and Massa for letting Alonso by. DQ them both and move on. Maybe they'll recoup their diminished manhood at the next race.
You're (not surprisingly) forgetting Kovalainen moving over for Hamilton at this very track in 2008. The precedent has already been set by the FIA with regard to this "rule" in that no penalty be handed down. Even the 100k fine was absurd.
Looking for legal precedent or even consistency from the FIA is a fool's errand. It may be that under Todt we will see it but that remains to be seen.
Possibly, but thinking Ferrari is going to be handed down a race ban is beyond foolish. I just think it is odd that no one was quite this "vocal" with past incidents that were virtually identically executed?
Very different situation... Hamilton won the race, Kovalainen finished 5th. Kovalainen was not a contender in the race, he happened to be in front of Lewis due to the jumbled race with pit stops and safety cars. This past race, Massa led most of the race. He would likely have held off Alonso. The team told him to give up the spot so that Alonso could get the P1 points. Not comparable to the Heikki situation.
I think Alonso was faster and would have ultimately passed Massa. (By the way, I was pulling for Massa.) The solution? Have the two Ferrari drivers evenly split the points for 1st & 2nd and fine the team $1 million.
Consider... It's the last race of the season.... Massa needs 1 point to win. He legitimately beats Kimi who is behind him in 2nd place. We dock him the points for a win? Would that be fair? I think sometimes overdoing the rules can cause more harm than help. In the above scenario, Ferrari would have to tell Kimi to fall back and lose another place - which may then cost Ferrari the WCC. And again we'd have races played out other than based on speed and drive. I am sure a solution exists that can best satisfy all parties.
I suggested that Massa & Alonso add up the points for a 1-2 finish yesterday and split them (only yesterday's points). Under that scenario, Massa gains a few points and Alonso loses a few points. Ferrari's team points stand the same.
Amazing, but.... true. Much as I don't like Massa that much, it's not like he is some super hard to pass guy like Webber or Schumacher or something. And Alonso is a pretty good passer. So either he has the ability to pass Massa but just prefers not to take the risk (which would be lame) Or he's not as much faster than Massa that he can pass the guy - in which case, having Massa just move over isn't fair. It's not like Massa was 50 points behind with 4 races to go. The season is barely half over, and Massa was a single win away from Alonso, and has had some pretty bad luck earlier this year. I sort of hope the FIA strips both their points from this race, then Massa wins the next one and Alonso DNF's. That way, Ferrari would be forced to start having Alonso move over for Massa, which he would never do. And Ferrari wouldn't want that either, but public pressure would require it. It would be a beautiful implosion on Alonso's part.
