Firestorm in the press about Ferrari team orders

Meh, same ole same ole. Next thing you know we'll have Sir Jackie coming out and denouncing Ferrari's actions as though it is a proclamation from GOD!

Hungary can't get here soon enough...

 

At least one of them wasn't ordered to crash...

 

The relative size of this scandal is so far below what we've seen in recent years I have no idea how we even care.

 

Alonso is involved, duh! AND he won the race as a result of what happened, so the haters (many of them in the British press) are crapping themselves.

 

I don't disagree.

 

In the past few years.... all the major scandals are triggered when Alonso is around in different teams.

1. Mclaren stealing design prints from Ferrari (Alonso)
2. Alonso caused the loss of Championship from LH and made KR win that year
3. Renault crashing driver 2 in the Race (Alonso)
4. And now this

He is reminding me of MS in the old days with all the controversy around him to win. I'm starting to like the guy

No seriously, it is none of any bodies business to interfere with team decision, i would have done the same, but in the pits or something that doesn't say, "look i just breached your rules".

 

I could not agree with you more, but I would expect that Ferrari, after so many years, would be able to pull this kind of stunt in a more elegant and refined way, not in the goofy manner they did on Sunday.

 

+1

Good point! One might think that with all the controversy that MS and RB saw back in their Ferrari days, SF would have perfected such maneuvers in a nonchalant way!!!! It (the pass) was almost embarrassingly obvious, and that is one reason why Scuderia are being fined and challenged currently. Had they made the slightest effort to make this look like it was something other than the team ordering Massa to let Alonso pass, it wouldn't be as questionable. Then again, perhaps Massa wanted to make a (blatant) statement...

 

unFairnando scandAlonso

That said: Forza Fernando!

 

I doubt it would have made much difference if Massa made it look closer. The real problem was the radio. Had they just said "reduce rpm, engine overheating" it probably would have been fine.

But when you have Alonso crying and Smedley apologizing there's no way to hide it.

Reminds me of 2007 at Indy when Alonso kept swerving toward pit lane and waving his fist at the team because he was too slow to get by. I was just heartbroken when they didn't tell Hami to move over...

 

in a way you must appreciate the truthful way they did it. the team felt they were in the right so why would they surreptitously attempt to do the change of position. it is a team sport and as such the team comes first. i am a massa fan and it did hurt to watch him relinquish his position but it was best for the team. maximum points and a drivers closer to the top.

 

Massa indeed wanted the world to know that he was the one ahead, and that he was giving up his position. Yes, he followed team orders, but did so in a selfish way, as weird as that sounds.

All he had to do was back off ever so slightly, like 2 or 3 tenths of a second per lap, and then not try blocking Alonso as he made the pass. It's as simple as that. If the media asks, all he says is he felt his tires go off a little. End of story.

 

I think Massa would've been happy to let Alonso pass if he was mathematically out of the WDC race, but not sooner.

 

So what you are saying then is that Massa wasn't upset about not winning or the lost points but really about the fact that Ferrari made it obvious to him, his team mate and the world that Massa is indeed the #2 driver.

Somehow I have the feeling that's also the reason why so many folks on here are very upset because the story about "whoever is ahead after Monza will be #1" has been debunked as nothing but a myth.

 

I never heard anything of the sort anyway. Much of what Ferrari is about is being made up by the public and the media, then repeated enough to ring true.

I thought this made for a good analysis of what happened and how it should be judged, including rule 39.1 itself.

http://members.chello.nl/r.saalmink/hock.pdf

 

The F1 hate list (ie.. no matter what they do, they are going to be hated)

Bernie
LDM
Alonso
Schumacher (any)
Hamilton
Ron Dennis
Falvio
Max (but, that one is really deserved)

Whenever any of these guys open their mouths or do anything smart or stupid on or off the track, they keep crushed in the press and in public opinion.

And, now, the opposite: the love list

Reubens
Massa
Vettel

 

Never thought of it that way, but I have to say you hit the nail on its head (except for some typos).

 

Max, yes is scum, I don't hate drivers, I admire the lot of them, love em no sir.

 

I can guarantee you almost no one knows, or cares about the Monza #1 myth. People are upset because:
1) They were robbed of a straight up fight, (which was happening & entertaining as Alonso was trying to pass Massa, then backed off 'this is ridiculous')
2) Ferrari were so blatant about the move and arrogant afterwards. (they had a 1-2 finish anyways)
3) The majority of fans don't like Alonso (would love to see a poll; Alonso; love him or hate him)
4) The majority of fans like Massa

In regards to being #2 Eddie Irvine said this week that his contract did not state he was #2, or MS was #1, rather the contract said he shall follow all team instructions.

Kevin

 

Isn't it great that we don't have to deal with puke Mosley anymore? I'm very impressed how 'below the radar' Jean Todt is....

 

I need to correct (IMO) some perceptions here.

1. Mclaren stealing design prints from Ferrari. You say Alonso, I say Ferrari (and I've said this all along). Ferrari let the guy steal the prints so they could cause a scandal in McLaren and end up stealing the WDC for KR, which they did. Jean Todt is no fool and they most definitely would have known the documents had walked when they demoted the guy responsible and played McLaren perfectly. Ron should be ashamed of himself for being so conned.

2. Alonso caused the loss of Championship from LH and made KR win that year. See my comments above for 1.

3. Renault crashing driver 2 in the Race (Alonso). Only one where Ferrari not involved, but Flavio has been watching Ferrari for years and learnt a few things .

4. And now this ... and yes Ferrari again.


Ferrari is and always has been right up there with dodgy dealings, and plain out right cheating. Because I understand F1 and motorsport has to involve pushing the boundaries of the rules I'm okay with this ...

Note I don't agree with McLaren getting in to so much trouble for using the Ferrari designs, it's part of the game. And copying, and then improving, is good for advancing designs
Pete

 

you sir, still remember what many here seem to have forgotten (or choose to ignore for good) that the Scuderia has plenty of shady history. long before FA got here, and it will continue long after the dude kicks his feet up on some remote island.

 

And now back to reality.

 

Dude, I don't know what are you on, but can I have some?
I think you missed to mention the global warming and 9-11 on Ferrari's dirty deeds list.