These are continuing to fall and I wonder what the end price is going to be
Are you sure? I've seen a bit of an uptick recently. It's been a while since I did a regression analysis of asking prices though. Wallace
Ive seen this across other marques and I have a theory why there is conflicting info... In any high end marque that is approaching "affordability" on any given model, a fair bit of the production starts to get rougher. Its just how things are. The vast majority of the time, the cars that people quote as being examplary of what a given model is "trading" at are at the low end of the spectrum (or people quote ebay auctions that didnt end with a sale) and these examples are often rough. Now times are getting rougher. The most abused cars are in the hands of those who were least able to afford them. They are also the first to get in trouble and start dumping whatever they can. One of the first things to go is their barely maintained car that was already rough around the edges when they acquired it and has only gotten worse since it was never owned by anyone who had any business owning one (meaning couldnt afford anything beyond barely being able to buy it) On the other hand, there are bargain hunters with real money now who want to buy and can genuinely afford these things. There arent a lot of them though. They wont be desperate to get a 911 GT2, a F355, or a whatever at "any price" and ignore an obvious respray, neglected maintenance or issues. They'll pass those by and wait for an *honest* clean example and just pay more knowing they are still getting a great deal thanks to the market realities. As a result, the holders of these *honest* *actually clean* cars, who most likely are *not* under pressure to sell and actually do have means to own the car, can potentially fetch a pretty decent price. Of course nowhere near market top, but pretty damn good in relation to what one might expect. The "fixer uppers"? they just keep getting pushed lower. I was just talking about this on the NSX forum. One person will INSIST that prices are going through the floor and site 1000 links to Prove it. But when you follow them, nearly all of the cars have issues. Then you will see a clean, honest, actual car with no accident/paint history and up to date maintenance go for what is a decent, but not "OMG amazing, anyone can afford one!" price. I've been watching F355 prices now for about 18 months and I dont get the sense that *really nice* cars that have their maintenance actually done and were owned by someone who can actually afford to own one (meaning changed the oil... LOL) and havent been resprayed, title washed through FL, gone through 20 auctions, etc etc are going for so much cheaper today. Prices seem stable. The crap boxes do seem to be pushing lower though, and I think my theory above explains the market dynamics causing that. Same with any used luxury item. I know a guy who is having an impossible time unloading his rolex. The reason is that it looks like crap (not that he can accept this). On the other hand, another friend of mine sold *three* of his recently and got really fair money for them. Difference is his are barely ever worn and he didnt need to sell them. He has a watch collection and has simply decided to shift from Rolex to Panerai and Patek since you can get decent deals on those right now.
Good, clean, well maintained cars are holding their value from what I see. There are a bunch of trashed 355s with no maintenance records that look like they were washed at the machine car wash that are bringing down the average though. I saw a car at a consignment shop here in Las Vegas with four badly curbed wheels and no service records that was a real bargain. LOL
Kind of a newb question....but what are referring to by a "respray'"? I am going to have my front bumper resprayed due to rock chips and then clear-bra it. Do potential buyers look at that as a bad thing? Mine was resprayed already when I bought it, but I've put 7500 miles on it and accumulated some rock chips there and on the driver mirror, which I am also going to respray. Are these things bad to do?
If done professionally by a top paint shop to a line on the car a respray should be undetectable if done properly. Some cars look like were touched up with latex paint and a rag.
Actually they are heading back up. The ones that continue to fall are the ones that have been bought buy those that could not afford to maintain them. Its a never ending cycle with those cars and they go so cheap that someone else who can barely afford one grabs one of these so he can show his friends he has a Ferrari. He soon finds out he has to do a service and sells it for high 30s low 40s and it is a POS now. Those that are constantly on here saying that they will soon buy a 355 because they are getting cheaper are dreamers as these cars will never be cheap enough for them and they are getting older. A very good example of a 355 will still fetch upwards of 70 and some approach 80 but dont expect to find them on Ferrari Ads or on E-bay as the good cars are sold to friends and family.
+1, my friend just sold his immaculately maintained 1997 Berlinetta (black/tan) that had the headers replaced with Tubi headers, Hyperflow cats and Tubi exhaust, maintained by the best 355 mechanic in the country for $67,000. There are plenty of cheaper ones on the market, but when you get into the details, they are less than perfect and have several issues. I am not saying it is a seller's market, but really good cars trade at much higher numbers than the average or poor cars. I don't really care as I do not see my self selling mine ever, maybe adding to it, but I think of mine as a keeper.
I will always agree with the fact that a well kept, well documented, sorted fcar will ALWAYS demand a premium but even those cars today have taken a hit. I have not seen a 355 sell in the 70's/80's in the past 2 years or sooo... perfect example...the most immaculate and well kept, documented, no stories...etc, 355 is still for sale by Robbie and he even has lowered his price several times.
Fwiw I payed 69 for my GTS in dec 09. Since then I have not seen another example that made me say "I wish I would have waited for that one".
And that was easily an $80k car 2 years ago so you've made the poster's point. Take off the $12k in exhaust, then where is the price? (sub 60) I saw the same, clean 355 a Ferrari dealer was selling for 89k 2 years ago listed recently for 60. You can delude yourselves if you want, but the market for these cars (all high line cars for that matter) is much smaller in 2009-2010 than it was in 2002-2006 and that will affect pricing. Prices have fallen steadily since 2007. There have always been ratty cars out there, but on whole values are way down. With probably half the market made up of casual buyers (i.e. not the Ferrari/355 enthusiast, but one who has $70-120k to spend on a toy) there is less spread to 360's & 430's and plenty of Astons, Masers, R8's, and Gallardos that eat into that range. The age and maintenance of a 355 makes it less appealing to them than the alternatatives.
yea, GTS is an exeption and always will be. challenge cars too but you never know...challenge car attract mix crowd and mixed feelings. not too many people would spend same amount of money on a car knowing its seen the track so many times.
+1......every time we see this discussion, we hear the same arguments regarding values. Unfortunately, there is plenty of evidence that prices are and have been on the decline. These cars are not investment pieces anyway. Robbie's 355 is a perfect "real world" example.
the most expensive ferrari is a cheap ferrari... with that said, also keep in mind that there are a lot of 355 owners on here who thinks their car is worth much more than the market price...until when they try to sell them, reality sets. Clean cars do indeed fetch a slight premium, but usually $5 to $10K tops.
The fact that a 12 to 17 year old 355 holds the value that it does is a pretty great feat. The other high end cars don't come close. The market is currently flooded with exotics and there is a lack of qualified buyers. The Hot Rod market is being crushed as well.
I do not study the market nor am I even in the market but that's the most ive heard a 355 selling for in quite some time.
Happened 2 months ago, car went to New York, also Ferrari of Denver has sold 2 Red/Tan Berlinettas this year for more, all 3 cars have had factory headers and cats replaced with superior replacements and recent 30K service completed.
Yes prices of ALL these cars have dropped in the past 6 years but that does not mean that they are more affordable. There is a reason why these cars drop in price. The reason is that people cant afford them because their wages have also dropped. The simple fact is that the 355 is one of the most enjoyable cars anyone could ever drive. The cost to maintain one is not that much. Its only a lot when 2 owners in a row choose to drive, drive and drive and only put fuel in it and not one dime to maintain the baby. Then one day it dumps oil all over the garage floor and or a check engine light or slow down light comes on. They come on here(usualy someone new with 10 posts or less) and starts to ask dumbass questions about their problems. They soon disappear and the car ends up at a garage where the engine is dropped for what is a very obvious service. Of course when the engine is out the abuse is very obvious and the cost of repairs climbs well over $15,000. The owner has only the minimum done and puts the car up for sale at a fire sale price of 40 something. Someone on F-chat posts the add for that car on here and says....."What a deal guys". Finally the car sells and someone thinks that they have saved a ton of bucks on a "Ferrari" untill they get a check engine light or whatever and they too soon find out that the car has been neglected for a decade. He is now pissed and sells at an even lower price. Now we have 2 people bad mouthing the 355 because it costs so much to maintain. This is laughable but many treat their Ferraris just like this. For those who maintain their Ferraris regularly, they get a satisfaction 2nd to none. Many will never see a price low enough to buy simply because they will procrastinate about owning one of these cars forever and if the truth be know they were never cut out to own one anyway. These people are more in love with the name plate than the car itself.
I would definitely agree with you about how so many ppl neglect their cars but it still costs to maintain a 355. Yes, if you MAINTAIN it, it will run better and hopefully have less problems but it will still cost you a pretty penny. But, anyone ignorant enough to think it took them that many years of planning, drooling and saving up to the day they could buy one, to think it would not cost them anymore after their purchase is not the case. You gotta chase the woman to get her but you still gotta entertain her, spoil her and keep her happy.
And she still gets older even if she is low mileage and well maintained. She might end up needing major work at some point, or you trade her in on a newer model and start the process over again. Where you talking about 355 prices? LOL
The market consists of buyers and sellers. a. Buyers: "collectors" (how many guys are collecting cars?) guys who want and can afford a really fine example and are willing to pay for it guys who just want one and can afford it and ordinarily buy lexuses or porsches guys who have just enough to buy one guys who are on fchat and doing careful research-enthusiasts (maybe 5?) guys who don't quite have enough to buy yours b. Sellers: guys dreaming of finding "collectors" to buy theirs (all sellers?) guys who are dreaming of getting their asking price guys who think their car is worth more than anybody else's guys who "know what their car's worth" guys who think you're an idiot for not wanting to pay their idea of value guys who really want to sell their car now to get something else they want more I'm sure there are other classifications to, but just ask yourself...who's gonna buy a car and from who? In a market where there are more sellers of premium examples than there are buyers, what happens? I kinda think that what's happening. Just my opinion, probably wrong. I just know that whatever I'm selling at the time always sells for somewhat less than I'd like to get. Seems I can never find a buyer "sophisticated" enough to pay waht I'm asking. And when I'm buying, I'm seldom smart enough to pay another guy's asking price, especially when there are other sellers with similar merchandise more motivated to sell.
