September 8: Ferrari Goes Before WMSC

I wonder if they are going to come clean at the hearing or will they tell the same lies they told after the race? I would think that would dictate the severity of the punishment.

 

Forget your "punishment": They paid 100k, that's it.

Worst case the FIA will strip them the Hockenheim points from the WCC. So what: They're way too far behind to win that anyway.

There are way too many connections between the president of the FIA, his former role with the team in question, Zeltweg 2002 and Massa's manager (son of FIA president) that no matter what the outcome, somebody will cry nepotism/revenge/etc.

This is not solvable in a way that will be perceived as fair by everybody. So then why even touch the hot potato? That's why they're hoping the hot potato will have cooled off by then and nobody will give a darn. I know I won't.

 

They would not have bothered calling Ferrari before the WMSC if the $100K was "it".

The WDC will be taken too, the drivers both played a part in robbing the F1 fans.

JT has recused himself for this hearing and will not be taking part. In 2002 team orders were legal so that does not matter.

It has not cooled off and it will not cool off. The FIA needs to show the world that they are not Ferrari's lapdog and as you say Ferrari can't win the WDC or WCC anyway so why not punish them?

Wouldn't it be poetic if Ferrari has a late run after they are stripped of the 43 points from Germany and end up loosing the title by a few points?

 

I can't imagine that as it would be insanely unfair to both drivers:
- Massa was simply following instructions from his employer
- Alonso saw a chance to pass and took it

No that would be a total travesty.

The "no team orders" rule is idiotic and needs to be abolished. The only thing Ferrari did was make it too obvious. Everybody uses team orders and if they don't, they end up with a big pile of carbon fibre and tears a la RB in Turkey.

 

So they were just following orders? Really? Are you serious or are you in Ferrari post Germany mode?

Please, the last time I checked that excuse did not and does not work.

 

I'm hoping you're not making here a reference to NAZI Germany and soldiers following orders. Not only would this not be appropriate for the case at hand, I'm not German either, nor is any of the people involved from Ferrari.

BTW: This view (that Massa only followed orders and Alonso simply took a chance to pass) is not just my view, but that one of a former F1 driver: Marc Surer, who btw was calling for a WCC points deduction but not a WDC pts deduction for these reasons.

 

So now you appear to be implying that they were not just following orders from their employer!.

Wish you'd make your mind up!

Still, if that's the case then Ferrari have no worries. (should get $100K back as well!).

 

When I said Germany I was referring to the German GP, not the Nazis but lots of people throughout history have tried that excuse and failed with it and here is why it does not work.

The drivers did not have to follow the orders. Clearly Alsonso wanted the order and he personally had much to gain, his "this is ridiculous" comment was very telling.

So they did not have to follow orders but they chose to because they get some benefit personally from following the orders. Continued employment and Ferrari as a F1 driver being first among them.

The drivers knew they were breaking the team orders rule and just as Vettel was punished for breaking the rules this last weekend they too will be punished.

 

That is not what I was implying. I was saying that the drivers have free will and made a conscious decision to break the rules (when asked to by Ferrari).

 

Actually you just made the case against team orders.

If Massa on his free will decides to get off the gas, then that is not team orders.

Plain and simple.

 

So now your saying the drivers listened to the information that Ferrari gave them and then decided of their own free will to conciously swap places based on what the team had told them.

 

I am going to take you both at facevalue eventhough I think you are trying to wind me up.

The drivers had free will to ignore the team order.

 

Phew. Top and bottom of it, Ferrari declared there lead driver on a world stage, in front of millions, which was known about anyway or guessed at, no surprise.

However IMO it wasn't appropriate to do it in such a blatant manner, and whilst team orders will still go on, the FIA will have to look into it, so as to be seen to be doing something about it, because it caused such a public uproar, even on Top Gear last night they were taking the p!ss. The owl flys at midnight Phil, do you understand ! Oh no not even that subtle.

Now whether Ferrari are trying to make a point or not with the FIA I'm not sure, whatever the case at least at this stage of the season they should have let them at it, or : Phil: "save fuel mode please," it was that simple.

 

But if the drivers had free will to to ignore the "team order" and chose not to, that implies that the choice to follow the "team order" was also of their own free will and therefore not dictated by the team.

This comes back to the team giving out information and the drivers deciding for themselves what action to take, based on what was in the best interest of the team.

The problem with this whole situation is that there is no evidence that Ferrari forced either of their drivers to do anything that they didn't want to do.

 

Thats being naïve, Phil: Fernando is faster than you DO YOU UNDERSTAND I'm sorry!!

Yes he could have done a Webber, but Ferrari pay his wages.

 

Personally I call for points deduction from the german race, WCC only.

Any more than that, and it would be to much, any less, they don't care.

My gripe with it all is that ANY driver and fan understands team orders when its nearing the end of the season and mathematically his teammate is in much better shape to win the WDC. This wasn't the case this time and angered the fans.

 

As I have said in another thread, Ever think that perhaps Ferrari did have a much more subtle way of dealing with the situation, but Rob Smedley, upset that his boy wasn't going to win that day, decided not to use it and instead made sure he was so blatant that the whole world would know what was going on?. Massa also made it blindingly obvious to the world (pre-planned between Smedley and Massa perhaps?).

I give Ferrari a lot more credit than most on here!.


(BTW, I would have used: "Filipe, Fuel Attrition +1" )

 

Maybe there was some of that going on.. who knows, well its up to Luca to show Rob the door and get rid of more of the English infidels diluting the brand ..

 

Agree 100%

 

RB: Mark, turn the revs down, your oil is black
MW: Ok, I thought I was too close to Sebrina
RB: good, now your oil will be black again very soon
MW: bugger me you guys are good to me

 

Spoken like a TRUE HATER...or possibly a McMUFFIN fan, or even BOTH
The HATE is so obvious, it even takes a FERRARI fan to notice.

 

Agreed, Phil.

I'm certain they could have gotten the message across much more discreetly and have pre-orchestrated ways of doing so. Furthermore, I'm sure a driver of Massa's calibre could have easily displayed a "mistake" for the cameras to let Alonso past.

This was a political statement before the world by Smedley and Massa. Not too dissimilar from Webber's use of the radio waves to make a political statement:

"Not bad for a number two driver, eh?"
(or something to that effect)​

It's a shame the drivers end up using the world's media to play politics against their own teams.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Ferrari could have been more discreet with there team orders I.E.

Phil we are picking something up on the telemetry back off your revs 1000 rpm now to keep the engine alive.


a lap after he gets passed...

Phil looks like the issue was a bad signal resume normal race pace.