Changes and impact to Dino resale value

- I read somewhere that changing paint color to another that was offered on the Dino does not affect value. True/False?...... depends on color

- changing out standard seats in favor of Daytona seats ..... no deduction that I know of


- replacing vinyl interior items with leather items..... an upgrade and not a problem


- replacing the interior color scheme with another (eg, black replaced with tan) ..... no real issue unless you get crazy like a yellow car with red interior


- replacing an original radio with another brand, assuming you can't easily find a replacement original that works .... no issue, Dino's didnt come with a specified radio, most were dealer installed

- adding a radio to a Dino that didn't come with one originally .... no problem


- adding the Ferrari tag ..... CRINGE.... I wouldn't do it. Most cars that have them have owners that regret that......to each their own, but i WOULD not add one..

- adding a passenger side mirror ... not a big deal.....


Will the peanut gallery add input, either good or bad? The person asking these question is real and legit. He wants honest feedback from Dino guys, and that doesn't just mean re-tards like me. I am certain we have a new addict in our mist....

Am i off on any responses?

 

A couple of comments re the above:

- Replacing vinyl interior items with leather -- the door caps should be Dino vinyl - I wouldn't be so keen on seeing them in leather. Also, the mousehair is pretty flocked Dino vinyl (you can see the underlying grain) - I don't like the idea of replacing the dash with leather.

- Adding the Ferrari tag .... I never would have done that to my GTS, but I have period photos of my new [well, old] Dino GT with a NART badge on the rear - it was imported AND sold by Chinetti - but when I bought, the badge was missing but the holes were still there. I found a NART badge the same size, but I can't attach it in the same location because someone messed with the original license plate surround. To cover the holes and the differential paint fade, the only substitute that I have found is a standard Ferrari yellow PH sticker that I have placed over the area where the old NART badge was. I don't like having done that, but as soon as I solve the license plate surround issue, I'll put my NART badge on it in the same location where it was in the old photos. If I had a Ferrari name plate accross the back, I'd plan on taking that off as soon as I could get around to doing it as long as I was also able to fill in the holes. So, if you see my GT in Monterey next week, with that otherwise (in my mind) idiotic Ferrari PH sticker, you'll know the reason why.

- Adding a passenger side mirror .... I'd like to do that to my GT - just make sure that it is an old style (either NOS or good repro) that matches the driver side mirror.

In the end though, this is all pretty subjective. So, I say pretty much do what you want (especially if you don't care about entering judged shows) as long as you don't do things like adding air dams, spoilers, wings, sunroofs/moonroofs, etc. (I'd also stay away from wire wheels . . . .)

 

I added a cavallino to the tail of each of my Dinos, but would never add a Ferrari badge. The car is a Dino, not a Ferrari, but I believe that it "deserves" the cavallino mascot, since it shares family dna. The fact that the cavallino appears on the driver's door jamb build tag and on the inside of the engine lid makes me think that perhaps the factory also felt that way. Only my opinion, as everyone always says! Fred

 

Just to add a slightly different view from the peanut gallery, here are my opinions/valuations. These are NOT market valuations, but the opinions of one individual who values originality over almost everything else.


- I read somewhere that changing paint color to another that was offered on the Dino does not affect value. True/False? … False. Non-original color reduces the value (to me) by up to $15,000 - $20,000.

- changing out standard seats in favor of Daytona seats… Reduces the value to me with about $5,000.

- replacing vinyl interior items with leather items … Don’t like it, but no real value reduction.

- replacing the interior color scheme with another (eg, black replaced with tan) … Terrible, reduces the value to me with about $8,000.

- replacing an original radio with another brand, assuming you can't easily find a replacement original that works … No problem, period correct radios are available. I have spare, correct Becker Mexico radio to put in it.

- adding a radio to a Dino that didn't come with one originally … Not a big issue, but no holes or external grilles on the door panels, please. That would reduce the value to me with about $2,000.

- adding the Ferrari tag … Unacceptable. Must be removed and the holes filled and repainted. Reduction perhaps $3000 to $5000 depending on difficulty to correct. Prancing horses are not too objectionable, but I would still want to remove them.

- adding a passenger side mirror … Not a problem, if it is a correct original type – same as driver’s side.



Lars

 

Lars,

With all due respect to you and your opinions, I would have to say you are in the minority when it comes to value reductions you place on the items.

I agree putting external door speakers in looks like cr*p and it would make me think about buying the car, the other items are simply items that if i could have whatever I wanted, I wouldn't prefer. They wouldn't and haven't stopped me from buying an otherwise nice car.

shawn

 

For the most part I agree with Shawn. The foundation of a Dino is most important regardless of color and equipment. Dinos are coachbuilt production cars and tend to transcend color changes etc as long as they're restored to an original specification and color that could have been available in period. How many cars on the lawn at Pebble were restored to not as delivered yet period specification? Has more to do with how well it is done and how period correct it is. My opinion.

Freeman

 

Another point worth considering: there is a small but growing market for original, unrestored and unmolested cars. These buyers prize the real deals and are willing to go well beyond patinia. They believe that like other fine art, once something is "redone", even by the very best, that originality is lost forever. However, the right cars for this market are very scarce, but ask and you will find some very passionate views on this, some of which is in Vintage

 

I 100% agree. All my cars have had very minor things doen to them over the years. As much as I have been tempted to make them look nicer (ie- dashes, etc) I have left them alone and purposely looked for cars like this when I was buying a Dino. I had heard to many bad stories about bad resto's, especially during the boom, that fresh cars always seemed possible candidates for botched job. Especially since almost always cars are described as "excellent" condition

 

How many could possibly have survived unmolested.
body rot, damage etc.etc.

 

Shawn,

I am well aware that I am in a minority, I only wanted to tell HMB-Dino that there are all kinds of buyers out there. Some value originality more than others.

We have seen that some Dinos now command asking prices close to (gulp) a quarter of a million dollars. For that kind of money a buyer should expect the car to be concours capable AND as original, in my opinion. When you think concours, the value reductions I gave are not that far out of line. They represent what I believe it would cost to have the car converted back to its original configuration.

There must be other individuals out there with a similar minority opinion, though. Think about Steve Mc Queen’s Lusso which was painstakingly restored back to its original brown (!) color before it was auctioned off. It sold for a record $ 9 Million, I believe…

I just want to make it clear that my opinion is absolutely not a put-down to those who decide to change color or interiors of their cars. In fact, some of the best looking Dinos I have seen, have been tastefully personalized by their owners, with non-original colors, headlight covers and wheels, entirely in keeping with the character of the car (that one was for you, Fred!). I applaud those efforts. I love to look at those cars. They are all part of the automotive hobby, and they represent a celebration of the Dino concept we all love. It is just that, if I were to go looking for a Dino for myself, originality is what I would look for first.

A minority opinion, yes, but an opinion nevertheless.

Lars

 

USD$2.31 million, although by an anonymous buyer but your point that it is worth many multiples of the standard is well taken

http://jalopnik.com/290578/steve-mcqueen-1963-ferrari-250-gt-berlinetta-lusso-sells-for-23-million-at-christies-monterey-auction

 

I think the problem might be that, in considering impact on value, one has to take into account what others (the faceless market) might want rather than what one wants to do with one's Dino.

I think we are all agreed that we would pay more for an original car in excellent condition and less for the same car with an unnecessary seat change, new leather, etc. But if a car needed a ground-up restoration anyway, then I wouldn't reduce the price because in the process it acquired Daytona seats, a color change to my liking, and so forth.

The downside of a fine original car is that one can't "improve" it!

Regards to all.

Andres

 

Maybe the opinions of Lars are a minority in the US but a majority in Europe.

Volkmar

 

In looking for my Dino I went through all of these steps so I can relate. I ended turning down the 7500 mile U.S. Dino because I really couldn't do anything to it. It wasn't about price. When I found my Euro spec "Blu Scurro" *03932* it was everything I wanted. It was a bit scruffy on the cosmetics but the body condition along with the mechanicals were great. The longer I have it I keep finding how original it is and how fortunate I am that I pulled the trigger on it!. Finding out that "Blu Scurro" was its original exterior color with the caramel beige vinyl was a bonus. It's one of my favorite color combos on a Dino. If it had been another color that I didn't like and I was going to do a ground up restoration I would have no issues in doing a color change to a Dino original color I love. Color is VERY important. You have to LOVE it. Sometimes you're fortunate and you find a Dino in a great original color, sometimes you find a great Dino in a color that doesn't move you. If you do a ground up I don't believe there's a value difference as long as its a color that people love and an original Dino color. Original unrestored cars you don't have a choice. In the vintage Porsche world doing a color change on a 356 isn't an issue as long as its an original 356 color, on early 911's original color is important to value. I see Dinos on the 356 side. Visually a Dino looks best without modifications(headlamp covers are the exception as they were design intent). Bolt on bolt off stuff like wheels(Campy vs Cromodora) are fun to play with. On radios, I think a modern radio looks out of place in a Dino. Must be a period radio. Mirrors, prefer an original Daytona style, driver's side only or none. If it had Ferrari scripts and cavalinos just take them off and fill the holes. Bottom line, find a good one and make it yours! Remember Corbani's Dino? He was our role model for enjoying our Dinos. His was a color change, put on 16" wheels BTW and he put lots of miles on it. That car had a soul!

Freeman

P.S. If I would have bought McQueen's Lusso before it was restored I would have painted it silver. It would still have been McQueen's Lusso!

 

The notion of vehicle personalization has numerous applications, perhaps as many as there are individual vehicles or owners. High-visibility collectors like Jay Leno do outrageous things to old cars, and create magnificent hybrids in the process. Hot rod and custom car builders fuse '32 Ford reproduction bodies with Chevy small-block V-8s. While I admire and respect originality, I have a bit of a stubborn streak, in that I frequently like to change an item or two on some of my cars. For example, our two M-B SLKs '06 and '10) have R 230-series SL body-color antennas in place of the factory-provided black mast antennas. Both my Dinos have small cavallini on their tail panels, but not Ferrari script. One of my Dinos has amber Euro rear turn-signal lenses and 308 five-point star mags, though with Dino center caps. First, they are my cars, and they weren't purchased with resale in mind. Second, in my personal opinion, I don't believe that my modifications have done injury to the design or manufacturing philosophy that underpins them. Finally, all of my modifications are of a type that can easily be reversed, either at minimal or no cost. Having said that, while I don't personally approve of those who try to turn their 308 GTBs into 288 GTO clones, I applaud those who, when doing so, utilize quality parts and workmanship. The bottom line, I guess, is that I don't approve of automobile censorship! Chacun a son gout ! (pardon any spelling errors). Fred

 

Freeman – I agree with every word you wrote above (except maybe about the Lusso!). I can only add “Amen” to it. I would also have chosen the car you chose of the two, and for the same reasons. I also admire the John Corbiani spirit of Dino ownership. It is perfectly possible to be an enthusiast who believes in driving the Dino and doing things with it on the one hand, and the slight preference for originality, which I expressed, on the other hand. I see no inherent contradictions in those two approaches.

Fred – I have even considered emulating your car by putting headlight covers on my car – originality (and the two minus points from the concours judge) be damned. The five spoke wheels have also entered my mind, but I do not want to just copy somebody else’s approach. Anyway, your car has been serving as an inspiration in my mind. That is about as far from engaging in automotive censorship as you can get.

My slight objection to a color change on a Dino also has more to do with what it indicates, rather than the color change per se. It usually indicates a ground up restoration, something that always raises a caution flag in my mind. Then, everything is dependent on who did the restoration, and how well they did it. Similarly, a new interior in another color rarely comes out looking exactly like an original interior. You could say that the valuations I listed have more to do with the original vs. restored debate, but that was not included in the questions on this thread. That debate would be another can of worms to open, and it would surely deserve its own thread.

Scott- Thanks for correcting me on the selling price of the Steve McQueen’s car. I had it mixed up with another car in my foggy memory, sorry about that. Still, it was a record price for a Lusso.

Lars

 

Lars, You are too kind! By the way, if you chose headlight covers and five-spoke wheels, you would have elements of both my cars, but it certainly wouldn't be slavish imitation. Furthermore, my covered-lights GT has the earlier bumpers, grille, wipers and front pan, unlike your car, which is equipped like my later Dino. One thing that I'm surprised no one has mentioned is the proliferation of redone seats, in Connolly cowhide. Were not all Dino seats covered in pigskin? It may be a minor point, but if huing to the original equipment on a Dino is paramount, I would think that the seat material would be an important factor in a car's concours rating. By the way, Lars, if you go for the headlight covers, please let me see some pictures! Fred