348 Gearbox Oil - Redline vs Redline

I've been reading through hundreds of posts on this but I need a sanity check. If any of you have experience any of these (more than one... even better!!), I'd love to hear your thoughts and comparisons!

Here's a Cliff Notes version of my conclusions thus far: (are my assumptions correct?)

Redline 75w90ns
Closest to the Ferrari-recommended specifications. May offer better mechanical protection than the other two oils, but not likely to improve shifting quite as much as LS or SS (below).

Redline Lightweight Shockproof
This may be the happy medium between NS and SS. It might offer the dramatic improvement in shift feel that people enjoy with SS, without the fear of lowering mechanical protection that some fear with SS.

Redline Superlight Shockproof
Likely to provide the largest improvement in shift feel, but I'm suspect of its ability to protect the gears during use. The my348.com site says LS may offer better protection, so I worry a bit about SS.

The specs that I've seen for both LS and SS don't say "GL5" and they don't have a viscosity rating like "75w/90"...... they also say "not for use with pumps and coolers"

>> Can anyone compare these oils?
>> Are my assumptions correct?
>> Does the 348 gearbox even have a pump?
>> What is this "Slip Additive" that Redline offers?

 

I just put in the 75w90ns and i have noticed a slight improvement in shifting. I would rather have better protection for the gearbox than improved shifting anyway.

 

+1 100%

 

I'm absolutely with you on that one! Protection is a necessity. Smooth shifts are a luxury.

My reason for wanting to change my fluid is that I've got the typical 2nd gear issues when cold (that doesn't bother me), but even when it's warm, it's tough to downshift into second (even with rev matching). It goes, but it's slow and I know it should be much easier when everything's warm.

The Ferrari dealer just finished a major on the car, so I figure they put in whichever fluid is on the shelf at the dealership (probably Shell?). I'm also assuming they used Shell motor oil because I have the much talked-about oil bubbles in my reservoir. Either way, I'd like to get rid of the oils they used and move to Redline in the gearbox and the engine. If I can improve my warm shifts and get rid of my bubbles, I'll be a very happy camper.

 

I use Redline Lightweight Shockproof because it ofers the best shifting with medium protection for the gears.

Other options are either dificult shifting with high protection or similar shifting to what I have but at the expense of the gearbox (SS).

 

The 75-90NS is a great oil. I spent some time on the phone with one of Redline's tech guys one day, because I had been lead to believe the lightweight shockproof was the way to go.

It has greatly improved shift quality in gearboxes that were very questionable. HOWEVER, the tech at Redline said that there are issues with the shockproofs in gearboxes which use "axial lubricated" bearings..meaning the oil runs through the inside of the primary shafts and is distributed out through feed holes to the bearings (much like camshafts).

He said that when the fluid is thrown out it actually separates the molecules and and breaks down the fluid enough to starve the bearings thus causing failure.

The shockproof oils are designed to be used in gear boxes where the fluid is simply "picked up" by the gears and sloshed throughout.

Some important information to consider in my opinion.

 

IMO most of the 'improvement' in shifting comes more from just changing 'old worn gear oil' to 'new fresh' gear oil .......... than the actual 'type' of oil .......... assuming you are using new replacement oil properly 'rated' for the application.

 

I'm betting this is mostly a type-of-oil issue. Last month on my test drive, I don't remember the car being tough to shift. Now, after a major at the Ferrari Dealer, it's a pretty rough shifting experience. I'm assuming they put the Ferrari-preferred fluid in there and as far as I know, that's not Redline. They use something else (maybe Shell?)

 

The dealer SHOULD be using Shell or Agip, whichever the manual recommends and they generally do.

I've seen many cars benefit from using a different gear oil, such as Redline. There is a noticeable difference in the composition and behavior of the different fluids.

Using the 75-90NS does improve things, using the lightweight shockproof nearly solved many stiff shifting gearboxes. Redline changed their recommendation for the use of the lightweight shockproof though.

 

Yes, I think I'm heading in the direction of the Redline 75w/90ns. I don't need the car to shift like a Honda; in a way, I see the muscular shifting experience as part of the Ferrari panache. If I can get it to be a bit more friendly that it is right now, I'll be thrilled.

 

Keep in mind the dealer disconnected the shifter cables to the gear box in order to remove the engine for the major. Your rough shifting might also be an indication your shifter cables need an adjustment.

 

Good point Dustin

 

Oil does wear out and diminish its lubricating properties when subjected to heavy use, many heat cycles and moisture from the vent. New oil will always work better than old oil.

Though as you said some will be better than others, depending on their composition.

 

Protection first, I completely agree, so I use RedLine 75W90NS ...

 

Josh- Ferrari has not recommended AGIP for a Ferrari for a long time. Here is the bulletin.

I use Valvoline 75W-90 full synthetic GL-5 and it works great on my admittedly different transaxle. Easy to find, too.

Taz
Terry Phillips
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Correct Taz, since the 80's...I was just making a blanket statement. You and I both know most of these recommendations are more money related than quality related anyways.

I've found the Valvoline to cause diff chatter in some of the cars and require an LSD additive. The Redline always always been great, and I know some of the "big dogs" around here prefer it as well.

 

Josh- None on mine, but good to know, thanks.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I can tell you one thing, gearbox oil smells AWFUL!

 

Just like engine oil, transmission oil is application dependent.

If you are going to run the living snot out of your car (like on a race track) then you need to use an oil with the specs Ferrari recommends.

For just about any other purpose (towing not included), you can get by with a lighter oil.

 

I used Redline MTL and was very happy with the improved shifting. I did this based on Brian Crall's recommendation in an old post. No Doubt does not like the MTL because it is a GL4 oil, but the explanation is as follows:

Originally Posted by Rifledriver
My shop is right down the road from Redline and we use their products in the race cars. I have had many long conversations with them about their products and their recomendations.

Ferrari specs GL5 gear oils for the transmissions. Due to Ferraris specs Redline will not officially suggest anything other than GL5 gear oils.

GL5 basically means an oil that is designed for medium to high offset hypoid differentials. MTL is a GL4 lubricant which means it is designed for medium to low offset hypoid gears. In the 308, 328, 348, 355 transaxles there are NO hypoid gears of any type, hi, low, or medium, offset.

I am not ordinarily an experimenter with others cars except in circumstances where the official way is obviously not working but I have seen MTL used with great success and zero problems in 308 transmissions since the product was introduced many years ago. It was also the oil of choice in the transaxles of the 355 and 348 Challenge race cars with zero problems. Those transmissions were subjected to greater stresses and heat in one weekend than most of our transmissions are in a lifetime. I cannot say that however of the AGIP oil spec'd by Ferrari at the time. One session at the track finished off several transaxles and we were told unofficially by Ferrari to quit using it in cars that would see track service. That garbage did remain the official oil.

I have been using MTL in customer cars that had cronic shifting complaints for several years including one 85 308 in daily service with over 115,000 miles on it and the owner is pleased to this day how his transmission performs.

It's great oil. If you have a shifting problem use it.

I would not use it in any transaxle in a 275, 330, 365, BB, BBi, TR, 288, F40, 550, 456, 360, 430, 612, or 599. Those are all medium offset hypoid gear differentials and should have GL5 oil.



BT

 

I just changed to Redline "NS" and I can only say that the gearbox now shifts like butter. It actually quite amazing what a difference it has made. Lets hope its durable too!

 

15 Years later, lets revive this thread!

My recently acquired 348 doesnt really have the smoothest shifting at all times, though its my first classic, so perhaps I am just too used to modern cars! I want to change the oil hoping that I would need less pressure needed to put the car into gear, I don`t really like the feeling of fighting with the car and needing to double clutch. The car came with a very detailed maintenance records I can see that transmission oil was changed only 2 years ago, but doesn`t specify the product.
So I emailed Redline asking them what I should use, telling them about MTL as well (which I use on my track car). Their response says NS is still a preferred option due to higher viscosity and added EP (Extreme pressure) additives, but MTL would also work while being compatible with the syncros

 

Royal Purple Max-Gear 75W90 Gear Oil in my 1995 F355 Challenge, changed yearly.

 

It will be the linkages that need finer adjustment.

Find some one who knows how to do this ( also threads on here) .

I had the same issue with my new to me 348 SP .

Total transformation when properly set up . Messing with the oil is like looking down a telescope the wrong way .

 

When I got my 348, the shifting into 2nd gear was very difficult, not the smoothest of smoothies until the car was warmed up. I don't know what product was in there before, but I switched to 75W90NS Redline and found an immediate and significant improvement.