Low end of range. Including buyer's premium? What were the feelings on this price? How many bidders? I don't recall what the ask was from Symbolic, but this is much, much lower. The car was certainly "original", but, as discussed elsewhere, would need a fair bit of work to make it competitive with other BBLMs now running. CW
I had the BB/LM in the sale. I was surprised how well it did. Especially considering that I have had it for sale for nearly two years. The "staleness" factor was the car's only real issue. Had it been a fresh / surprise to the market things might have been very different. We were anticipating something between $700K and $750K. Max is a fantastic auctioneer and I saw many lots where he charmed out two, three, sometimes many more bids than should have been made on quite a few lots. The sale of the Cobra and Tucker were interesting and obviously in indication of the market at that moment on some pretty neat machines. The BB/LM likewise a good indication of fair market value on a no-issue BB/LM. Off to the races and then more auctions. Cheers, Bill
Would someone mind explaining what a "buyer's premium/fee" actually is? Why is that not factored into the price quoted at the time the hammer falls? All the best, Andrew.
Bidders should always understand the commission structure at ant given auction before bidding. RM has a fixed 10% premium they charge on any lot so as already pointed out the buyer of the BB/LM at a high bid of $800,000 will actually be paying the auction house $880,000 for the car. If he is a dealer or takes out of State or overseas shipping he owes nothing further except his own moving expenses and any State or overseas fees, duties or taxes depending on where he resides. If this lot goes to a local buyer, sales tax is added automatically to the lot prior to collection but in this case, no automatic registration fee as it is a race car only. Other auction houses have different commission structures. Bonham's charges 22% to buyers on non-car lots and 17% on cars on items up to $100,000. The commissions on bids above that are reduced to I believe 10% but not quite sure. Again, the most important thing prior to any sale or bid being made is to understand exactly what your total cost will be given the auction fees and your own state, local requirements etc... for taxes and other expenses. Hope this helps.
HI all, Let's use net prices going forward. Commission rate changes with the size of the item and type of seller/buyer. Many negotiate bespoke arrangements. When i was contemplating listing one of my cars for sale this weekend - and did not, just sold it via a broker - people were suggesting different commission structures to me and where VERY open to negotiations. I`d suggest that to make this an apples to apples comparison we use net prices, and not the grossed UP numbers the manipulated price + commission represents. Elad
This is a real "gray" area. The ask is 10% and most sellers have to pay this. Auction houses, just like collectors and dealers have to work very hard to get certain cars and collections in order to bring in clients and keep interests in the other lots up. I can only speak about what I know over the years on my own cars, client and company cars that I have consigned. In a few cases for special machines I have been given reduced commissions. On even fewer occasions, I have had to pay no commissions as the lots were deemed very important and likely to not only sell well but create interest, excitement and demand for some of the other lots and the auction in general. Today if I approached a given auction house with a Ferrari BB / BBi or some other nice but production oriented machine, they are going to require me to pay 10% of the hammer price for my seller's commission. If I gave them some "Piece Unique" priceless, race-car, sports car etc... that has an interesting story and universal appeal, they are going to be a bit more flexible on how much they are willing to give in to get the lot. They might also be concerned about my ability to shop the sale's idea to another auction house which might also motivate them to be a little more flexible. Consigning cars to an auction or giving a car on consignment to a dealer should always be done carefully with a full contractual understanding of each parties responsibility as well as reasonable expectations of the sale and how payment and expenses will be both calculated and payed by each party. Obviously, I am happy to assist with both should someone be interested in the sale of a particular machine or collection. If it is for a car or cars that I like and am passionate about, I will want to handle the sale myself. If not, I will always for free give assistance in directing a particular seller in the right direction such as a different dealer, Ebay motors, or one of the auction houses all depending on timing and the type of car or cars involved. Hope this helps, Bill Noon
Bill thanks again for your insight and congrats on the BBLM sale. I know how painful a stale car can be. Out of curiosity...what was the price when you had it advertised at your place? $200K for the Daytona?! How was the car? Anyone?
I could not disagree more with Elads. Unless you have unfairly obtained a seller's consignment agreement you are never going to know what a seller was paid on the sale of a vehicle. In addition to commissions if any there could be shipping and marketing expenses as well. Often cars need services and repairs prior to sales and these are also sometimes factored in. It is nothing but a guess on what a seller actually nets back unless you have inside knowledge on an individual sale and publishing such information would be an un-wise and an unethical thing to do in my opinion. The only true numbers that should be listed and used as an indication of actual sale value are the hammer price. To that you can add in the clearly defined commissions that must be paid. (If you do not pay your commission on top of your hammer price, not a chance in the world you are going to be allowed to collect your lot. The same can be said for the Seller. No auction house is going to change their mind after a sale and not charge you the previously agreed seller's commission on any money paid back after the sale.) Most of my clients that I bid on behalf of want to know their full cost when I bid for them. In those cases, not only do I tell them their total price (hammer plus commission) I also try to have all of the shipping, duty, taxes, registration etc... type fees pre calculated so there can be no bad feelings later. Every auction house universally always posts and provides a list of the lots sold and these are always the price plus commissions collected which is the real selling price and a perfect "machine, man, moment in time" snap shot of a specific vehicle's individual value at that time. A great review of the many sold and un-sold lots always appears in the Sports Car Market Letter a month or so after a given auction. I find these reports to be absolutely one of the best ways to understand the actual real value of a given car months and years later. This help me understand real trends as well a specific interest and changing interests in individual machines. Cheers, Bill
The BB/LM was offered beginning two years ago at $1,250,000. This was reduced greatly over time until this past Spring when consigned to the RM sale. I am very happy for the new owner. He is getting a vey special car and his patience paid off on a reduced sales price. Cheers, Bill
