Another Sopwith? A Nieuport? A Be2? | FerrariChat
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Another Sopwith? A Nieuport? A Be2?

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by snj5, Aug 12, 2010.

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  1. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #1 snj5, Aug 12, 2010
    I'm thinking about it. A two seater. I need something to putz about this winter and these aluminum tube replicas match my meager wallet, even more meager skills and almost inperceptable attention span.
    This time the challenge would be how efficiently frugal could I be ( e.g. cables instead of flying wires, not so much spent on original bits)and still have a safe, low upkeep, fun little full size WW1 LSA approximation for two that could be easily flown and ingressed/egressed by an aging cripple?
    Would be nice to take friends for a ride.
     
  2. Fastviper

    Fastviper F1 Rookie

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    #2 Fastviper, Aug 12, 2010
    Already bored? It has been like a month since you finished the last one..

    Got to love your style...
     
  3. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    #3 Gatorrari, Aug 12, 2010
    If you want to stick with Sopwith, there's always the 1-1/2 Strutter. Nieuport and SPAD both had two seaters. If you don't mind building something bigger, maybe the Bristol F.2B or the D.H.4?

    But if you want a room with a view, maybe a pusher like an F.B.5?
     
  4. zygomatic

    zygomatic F1 Veteran
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    #4 zygomatic, Aug 12, 2010
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  5. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #5 Bob Parks, Aug 12, 2010
    I think one of the prettiest and best flying two-seater would be a Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter. A perfect companion. I will even donate a complete scale drawing of it for you. Drawed by hand.
    Switches
     
  6. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

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    #6 Kds, Aug 12, 2010
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  7. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

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    #7 Kds, Aug 12, 2010
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  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #8 tazandjan, Aug 12, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2010
    Russ- The Strutter is too big for a realistically sized replica that is not expensive. Birds that might fit the bill would be a Nieuport 10 or 12, a Halberstadt CL.II, a Morane Saulnier BB (biplane), or a Halberstadt C1. All are relatively compact 2 seaters. Most 2 seaters were pretty big aircraft with spans up around 40 feet. Even the Fokker C.I was pretty big because it is based on a big single seater, the D.VII. The BE-2 was big, too.

    The Nieuports would be the easiest to do and I have seen steel tube Nieuport two seaters, mostly N.XIIs, although most were subscale.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  9. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    #9 Gatorrari, Aug 12, 2010
    How about a Roland C.II, or a SPAD XI?
     
  10. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #10 Spasso, Aug 12, 2010
    You're nuts. You know that don't you?:p
     
  11. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #11 Spasso, Aug 12, 2010
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  12. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

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    #12 Kds, Aug 12, 2010
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  13. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #13 snj5, Aug 12, 2010
    Was looking at a two seat Tabloid or N10, both full scale.
    All the German planes seem quite big, and I do not want to scale down.
    Also researching everyone's suggestions - many thanks!!
    Requirement is to gross less than 1320# for LSA rules.

     
  14. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #14 Spasso, Aug 12, 2010
    With four Toyota aluminum V-8's............yeah, I'm all over that.

    I'd like to see someone try a crosswind landing in that!
     
  15. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    #15 GrigioGuy, Aug 12, 2010
    Kinda out of the timeframe a bit, but how about a Big Piet? Scaled-up tube frame variant of the Air Camper.
     
  16. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #16 snj5, Aug 12, 2010
    That's not a bad idea. I do know they make a 'wide-body' Piet plans, if I can find the plans source I'll look at it!
     
  17. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    #17 GrigioGuy, Aug 13, 2010
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  18. beast

    beast F1 World Champ

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    #18 beast, Aug 13, 2010
  19. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #19 snj5, Aug 13, 2010
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    I have always loved Pietenpols.
    The Taube is pretty wild.
    If only I wasn't so big.

    The math on two seaters and still staying LSA is getting interesting.
    Gonna have to stay pretty simple. Leaning toward a side by side composite of early and late Tab.
    Javier Arrango has a very nice one in California.
    Here are a couple of Phillip Makanna photos from his 'Ghosts - the Great War" calender which I bought.
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  20. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    #20 Gatorrari, Aug 13, 2010
    The first Pietenpol I ever saw looked a lot like that one, but with machined-turned cowl panels and a bulb horn alongside the cockpit! If I can find a photo I'll post it.
     
  21. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #21 tazandjan, Aug 13, 2010
    Russ- Look at the land versions of the Schneider, too. Another small single-seater. That Tabloid cowl might not be too healthy for a Rotax.

    Steel tube, wooden wings, no wires, small? Sounds like a Fokker Dr.I and then you can have your own WW-I dogfight (with another volunteer). Plus I have more photos on the Dr.I/F.I than you can imagine. More than enough to do a 500 page book guaranteed to put you to sleep.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  22. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    #22 Spasso, Aug 13, 2010
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    I got to ride in a real Pietenpol Aircamper when I was 11 years old. Front hole, nothing to look at forward but the radiator. It ran a Ford Model 'B' engine.

    The pilot demonstrated what it was designed for when he landed in a pasture full of cows and took a leak. A very competent airplane though quite small.
     
  23. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #23 snj5, Aug 14, 2010
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    Thanks Terry and everyone contributing - your words are highly regarded
    The two vent holes above the the SS Tab prop hub scream inexpensive 'flat 4', and I'm seeing how I can do this plane frugally. This may sound silly, but I am also hoping this plane as easy to fly as possible (for a taildragger) for a "volunteer" as you say, with very little challenge in transition from an Aeronca (perhaps someone who is getting older as well); easy ingress/egress, wide landing gear with nose over skids, long tailwheel moment arm, Aeronca pedals, Aeronca heel brakes, safe airfoil etc. A very inexpensive, simple, safe, low maintenence, easy to fly LSA with a nod to history for fun. This is totally just a flivver.

    And, as historian JM Bruce argues, SS Tabloid 387 of Norman Spratt, No. 3 Sqn., has a legitimate claim to being the first ever single seat fighter. Ever. How cool is that?

    On the other side of the 'coin', I am continuing to slowly upgrade the Camel. Fred Murrin is making a set of spruce interplane and cabane struts, I'm re-doing the wood on the turtledeck and cockpit coaming, just got in a proper Sopwith MkIV pitot tube, leather patching the cable exits, new Auster windscreem and mount the Aldis...

    We'll see - I am more eccentric (crazy) each day so who knows what.
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  24. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #24 snj5, Aug 14, 2010
    Sopwith Tabloid replica numbers:
    Max gross: 1320# ( as determined by LSA FAR); original 1580. Original empty weight: 1200#
    Speed: Performance target is Aeronca Champ; original's top speed was 90 mph with 100 hp.
    Length: 7.02 m (23 ft)
    Wingspan: 7.77 m (25 ft 6 in)
    Height: 3.05 m (10 ft)
    Wing area: 22.39 m² (241 ft²)
    Engine need 100 - 140 hp, want to weigh than 200# on motor, prop and accessories.
    Talking to Airdrome, the fuselage using aluminum tube should come in at about 500# or less.
    Total cost in the teens spread out over a year or so.
     
  25. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #25 Bob Parks, Aug 14, 2010
    If you like the Tabloid, take a look at the Sopwith Baby. There was a land plane version and it had a rotary.
     
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