458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

Yes - an audience of about 350 million people around the globe does have its benefits.

>8^)
ER

 

So does a couple of other things

 

Funny everyone is so "ooooooh.... Ferrari has a RIVAL now! Gonna take it to ya!!" but nobody mentions Lambo.

If there is anyone who should worry about McLaren, it's Lamborghini.

I could care less if the McLaren is a better car than the 458. In fact, if it isn't, it's a major FAIL on their part. It simply has to be to be relevant.

What's so wrong with having 2 great 2 seat sports cars on the market at the same time? Nothing. Just like as it does in racing, competition improves the breed.

 

As a whole I'm not so sure I would agree. I'm willing to bet that a majority of the time there won't be cross shopping between McLaren and Lamborghini. Those who want flash will buy the Lamborghini > McLaren, those who want performance (assuming the McLaren will have it over Lambo) will choose the McLaren.

It certainly doesn't help Lamborghini's case though especially considering their new car sales lately

 

Probably will see more of them in Dubai than in the USA, it will sell a few, but I don't think it is going to be a market winner. Wonder how much they are going to ask a dealer to invest in a new showroom for the privilege of selling them?

Regardless of how many go ga-ga over the original F1, it was still a sales flop. People really forget that the market at the high end is a lot shallower than most think it is...

 

And if I were fortunate enough to own a Zonda (in my opinion the best supercar produced), I'd bet you'd get the same response and it wouldn't bother me in the least.

 

It's been a long time since I've owned a Ferrari - 1995 when I owned a new F355 Spider - and I recall being put off by the fact that the '95 911 Turbo was faster than the F355. And today's 911 Turbo still is off the line and yet Ferrari is still thriving, nonetheless. Competition just serves to improve the breed and the new McLaren, with its sub-3-sec 0-60, will just force Ferrari to not rest on its laurels and keep improving their cars, but I doubt that Ferrari will suffer lost customers as a result of the MP4 entering the market. For each buyer who does defect there will always be a new one eager to own a Ferrari who will replace the defector.

According to my dealer (who is only 1 of 6 dealers who will get the first allotments), they should start delivering next summer. I'll have to see one in person - just as I'll have to see the 458 in person (I haven't) - before I make up my mind but judging by the pics I've seen, the Italia kills the MP4 in the looks department. And, if I am somewhat put of by the 458's front view, all I have to do is look at the awful face of the McLaren and that should throw a wet blanket over any ardor or jealousy I might feel as a result of the McLaren's world class performance.

 

I didn't go through the whole thread so apologies in advance...but how much does the MP4-12C cost?

 

They haven't released official pricing details yet, but have estimated that the car will run somewhere in the range of $225,000-$275,000.

>8^)
ER

 

BTW, brand/image is everything. Look at Harley. They could put out a turd with chrome pipes and it will sell. Ferrari gets to enjoy that. I can't think of any other car company that has created the same niche.

Doesn't hurt that Ferrari seems to be at the top of its game. It would take a huge flop to bring them down, and the 458 ain't it.

 

My hope would be that it will be a fantastic car with it's own personality. There is no need for a knock-off. The fun is that Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche... they all feel different with ups and downs to each. The world will be just a little bit brighter with another flavor to savor!

(too bad I don't have the coin to have one of each!)

 

I don't believe the MP4 will be a better driving experience than the 458.
McLaren will be going all out to put up better track and acceleration numbers.
But our benefit will be the competitive pressure may produce a phenomenal 458 Scuderia

 

From the last set of pics here it looks as if it was styled, inside and out, at about the same time as the F1. And the F1, fantastic as it is, looks quite dated now.

 

Perhaps they meant a greater win rate per season contested over the history of Formula1? It sounds like the sort of weird statistic any manufacturer might come up with to promote a new car...

Ferrari:

Years Contested: 1950-2010 (60 years)
Races Won: 212
Average Wins Per Season: 212 / 60 = 3.53 (to 2 decimal places)​

McLaren:

Years Contested: 1966-2010 (44 years)
Races Won: 168
Average Wins Per Season: 168 / 44 = 3.82 (to 2 decimal places)​

Alternatively... most wins and/or highest percentage of wins in a season:

Ferrari:

Most wins in a season (2002): 15 / 17
Highest percentage of wins in a season (2002): 88.24% (to 2 decimal places)​

McLaren:

Most wins in a season (1988): 15 / 16
Highest percentage of wins in a season (1988): 93.75% (exact)​

There are lots of weird statistics one can pick and choose from.

I might have to disagree with you here, sorry Jim.

I'm really not a fan of the Ferrari 458's looks. Something looks really odd about the back to me... the wrap around sections by the rear window, the single tail lights, and the odd moustache-like moveable aero components in the front grill. Just... overall I don't find it aesthetically pleasing. It's just too strange (no side intakes?) and alien for me, as if the car is trying too hard to be exotic and not quite getting it right.

I find the McLaren MP4-12C a little more conservative and it looks a bit more confident for it. I also like that it bears some similarities to the 348 and the Testarossa in its styling (rear slats, side intakes) that feel familiar and comforting to the eye.

But then again, I'm not in a position to afford either of these cars... so my opinion counts for very little to either company.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

That's one of the best bits about the design.

 

For the record these were McLaren's claimed racing accomplishments in the initial press release for the MP4-12C:

>8^)
ER

 

the hype precedes the mclaren ... the expectations are high due to their history ...

ferrari is a known animal ...

 

Really? I would have thought "Ferrari" is the most synonymous word in the world for exotic supercars. I can think of nowhere that the name Ferrari would not be known even in the most ignorant of automotive company and I honestly can't say the same about "McLaren".

Isn't that fame/notoriety of Ferrari the most prolific of hypes and sets the very highest of expectations? People anticipate the unknown from Ferrari: the latest and greatest of developments in what is not just a great car - rather, a finely honed instrument of driving perfection. Whenever anybody sets out to make a supercar, they don't call out McLaren as the old guard they want to surpass... they say Ferrari.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

They did quote some statistic along that lines you posted but either I misunderstood it or misheard it which is probably what they wanted to happen. In Fairness they have built a car that finished 1OA at Le Mans a lot more recently than any Ferrari and the value of their F1 Road car has appreciated very nicely.

Styling is in the eye of the beholder but personally I think the 458 has more "Wow" factor which is important for many.

Cheers!

 

Not a big fan of the styling of either.

I'd wait for the 458 Scuderia...

 

How much does anyone want to bet that McLaren NEVER reaches it's sales goals in the US despite having a fantastic car?

There are a lot of cars that have better performance than Ferrari at a lower price -- and still people wait in line for one. It's not just the performance and numbers that make people fork over a quarter million bucks.

 

A light +1 on your post.

I think it's going to be a "hottest new car" thing for the US, as Audi R8, GTR R35 etc., and wear off after about two years - but the Ferrari thing never wears off...

They are very serious though, much more than most "fastest car for your dollar" makers, so we could be surprised...

 

Do you think Ferrari will officially be entering any current production cars into Le Mans in the near future?

Ok, styling is very subjective.

Do you expect the Scuderia version to look massively different?

All the best,
Andrew.

 

In my opinion, if the styling is not somewhat polarizing, then you are not trying hard enough. You can't break new ground without leaving some people behind.

The 458 has a few elements that are controversial. But the first thing I thought when I saw it was how it immediately dated the 430 in my eyes.

 

When I look at both these cars, I think Honda had the right styling concept back in 2003 with the HSC, too bad they didn't pull the trigger. The 458 looks like it picked up Honda's unused design and perfected it.
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