458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

Yes I take the bet exactly as you've written it.

Have your Lawyer contact me and we'll do it in LV so it will be Legal.

Minimum amount I'll bet is 1 Billion USD.

I want to make at least 250MM which is exactly what I'll make even if I have to buy 2000 of them myself.

As for you I really can't understand the time value of betting that something will "NEVER"
happen.

While you're in a Venturesome mood how about betting on Ferrari selling 5000 California's within one year which is the productive capacity they added to do exactly that.

I'm willing Bet on that as well but not for "Never".



Andrew

I'm hope Ferrari will once again race officially at Le Mans but I bet McLaren does before they do.

Cheers 2 U 2!

 

I think the Honda looks fantastic! Too bad they didn't produce it. I'd love to see a new NSX join the fray.

 

+1

 

Remind me never to place any wagers that oppose yours...

It would be great to see. Give LdM a little prod next time you see him.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

McLaren can do what Ferrari did on the California. Expect to sell 4K units a year but then realize that was too optimistic. Cut production down to 2k and then proclaim the car exceeded their sales goals.

 

Japanese are incapable of an original design,that Honda had very strong Enzo influence.....

 

So there you have it. They ARE the more successful racing team. How's that for racing heritage?

 

Good point.

the most exciting car I have ever driven is the F1.

I would consider myself blessed to have either the MC or F in my garage.

Based on LOOKS alone, I would take the 458.

 

Sales goals can always be adjusted, that's why Napolis wrote what he did. Management gets their bonus by hitting goals, so the first lot misses and gets fired, the 2nd generation crew will not make the mistake the first guys did...

 

Read his approach to the bet again.

 

Just a Tease: New McLaren Dealership Previews MP4-12C, US Spec-Sheet Shown

>8^)
ER
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This is true.

This is Ron Dennis. I actually like the guy but he will go to any length to try and upstage Ferrari, no matter how desperate and insecure it makes him look.

I'm sorry, are you referring to McLaren?

I'm not sure why some people think McLaren are the more successful team? I wasn't at Pebble Beach so I don't know what Ron Dennis said but I want to clear up any confusion.

McLaren

Constructors' Championships: 8
Drivers' Championships: 12
Race Victories: 168​

Scuderia Ferrari

Constructors' Championships: 16
Drivers' Championships: 15
Race Victories: 212​

Scuderia Ferrari are the most successful team in Formula 1 history. End of discussion.

 

those mirrors are big

 

To be fair, Ferrari got a 17 year head start to reach those numbers. I think success rates might be more representative:

Drivers championships rate, per year raced.
McLaren .272
Ferrari .25

Constructors championship rate
McLaren .181
Ferrari .266

Total win rate
McLaren .247
Ferrari .263

Drivers championships in the last 25 years (arbitrary but relevant to the modern era):
McLaren .36
Ferrari .24

Constructors, last 25 years
McLaren .24
Ferrari .32

I think that's darn close, any way you cut it. But by drivers' championships and modern wins, McLaren's got a lot of racing heritage to work with in their marketing group.

 

The McLaren is going to be a great car but I can't get over how dated & generic it already looks.

 

I'm amazed that design even got off the drawing-board for the very reasons you give.

 

InsideLine: So a 2011 McLaren MP4-12C Stopped by our Office...

>8^)
ER
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I agree with that.

 

Having said that I do like the look of the dash. Shame the rest of the car doesn't look as good as that or they'd be on to something.

 

It's not the performance I disagree with, but the exterior and interior design.

So much about styling a high performance car is the emotion invoked when you walk around it. This is what a designer wants. It's something that is supposed to last through as many times you look at the car.

I don't agree so much with the above statement that the design looks dated - although I can see where the opinion comes from - but think more so, that the design has nothing unique about it. Hardly any originality.

My problem with the interior is the lack of thought in design. I can't see how with a name like McLaren, and such a reputation, there would be nothing mouth watering inside or out. The steering wheel looks like an aluminium Gallardo wheel, and the center bits are clearly inspired by the CGT.

This all raises the point again of McLaren's "stainless steel" feel, lacking passion. It seems like the data sheets all fall in line to what the boffins wanted out of a new car, but where's the smiling face for the passion in the brand and care for the buyer's joy in carrying on the legacy?

I feel like the buying experience for this car should include a blood test and a suit fitting.

_J

 

It's amazing to me, analyzing the curvature of the car, noticing that so much of it looks like an R8 and Gallardo meshed together.

http://image.eurotuner.com/f/news/eurp_1007_world_debut_mclaren_mp4_12c/28404689+pheader_460x1000/eurp_1007_04_o+world_debut_mclaren_mp4_12c+rear_view.jpg

And I honestly can't understand the rear end...


_J

 

I must say the car looks rather nice. There is just one little problem, McLaren has done their homework fine but took a good look at the Italia when designing this car. The problem that lies with this is that the 458 wins every comparison, hands down.

It's nice looking and everything, it's just that the 458 beats it on looks and styling. And who cares if the car can do a sprint just a tad better, you buy your car for looks and instant love.

 

You can even get carbon panels like the r8

 

Anyone else feel, who hasn't seen the car live yet, that it feels very "plasticy"? Don't know why, but I get this feeling.