458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

Always great to hear the opinion of people that can't afford it...

 

D'oh!


_J

 

I buy the one that has a cigarette lighter.

 

A Lambo guy?

_J

 

Which one of these doesn't fit?

Wickedly Good
Jumbo Shrimp
Italian Supercars
Virtual Reality
Great Britian
British Supercars


And I did say Supercars as in many and plural

 

Agree with this post, almost verbatim. My first reaction to the 458 was - beautiful car, but why so heavy? After enduring the constant rhetoric from about lighter cars, I thought the 458 was going to be different. And then the excuses about the carbon tub for this segment - kind of insulting to the intelligence of their customers, I think.

The short-term viability of Ferrari's product line could never be threatened by a new market entrant. However, I do think McLaren will have an impact on Ferrari's product development decisions going forward. Which is excellent for us, as I believe Ferrari needs to be kept honest.

The perception of the McLaren brand surely hits home at Ferrari in a way that Lambo, Porsche, et al., never could. Some 12Cs will be bought in lieu of 458s. How many, we cannot predict. But behind all of "the passion" at Ferrari, there is a business to be run and my guess is that a few of the bean counters will be tracking McLaren sales very closely. If they aren't, then yes, I believe the long-term viability of Ferrari's brand will face its most significant challenge in a long time.

 

I consider myself extremely lucky, since my F dealer where I got the 458 is also McLaren dealer.
Very,very convenient......

 

Wow. Are you sure you don't want to delete that post?

 

It was in reference to the content of the video. And no, I don't want to delete it.

 

The Challenge Stradale looked much better than the 360 (which IMO wasn't an ugly car to start off with!), it didn't have much more than a slightly different front bumper, sideskirts and rear bumper and a boot lip and some wheels. It was very subtle but it made the car look better overall.

The Scuderia was much more aggressive than the 430, and IMO, looked better once again.

I reckon with some small things changed the Italia can look much better than it does (which shouldn't be too hard).

 

I think it's far too early to be predicting the downfall of Ferrari, after 63 years of successful business, based on the entry of a single new model from a rival company.

Lamborghini never managed it, (and I'm sure Ferruccio Lamborghini wished he had), Porsche never managed it, Lotus never managed it, Zonda have never managed it, McLaren themselves have never managed it. Ferrari have seen them come, learned to live with some, watched others come and go and are still as sought after as ever, if not more.

for all the other companies, yes they can make faster cars than Ferrari, yes they can sell their cars cheaper than Ferrari, yes they can be more high tech than Ferrari, yes they can make more cars than Ferrari, but what they cannot do is beat the magic that is Ferrari, they cannot come close, let alone match the history that is Ferrari.

As the French would say, Ferrari has a certain "je ne sais quoi" that the others simply lack. It's not one thing or another, it's a combination of everything that makes Ferrari special, and it's that "je ne sais quoi" that McLaren will always be missing!.

 

With several dealers in the US and the UK rep'ing both brands, this could prove to be a boon to McLaren sales.

"No sir, we cannot provide you an order slot for the 458 until next year. But have you seen the new McLaren? We have one just over here"...

 

Perhaps in Europe or the Middle East, but not in America: Beginning next summer, the 6 McLaren dealers in the USA will have to share 360 total cars for the following 12 months. Even if it were divided evenly between dealers (which it probably won't), that's 60 cars per dealer for the first year, max. They will not be in abundance anytime soon.

 

Wasn't that the strategy employed by Maserati?

How'd that work out for them?

 

Ron Dennis thinks he's going to sell as many of these as 458's.


Come on... he's crazy. First, the market is not that big. Second, owning a McLaren is no way as important to most than owning a Ferrari. He's delusional to think performance and technology drive sales of quarter million dollar cars. He's more delusional if he thinks McLaren is as important as Ferrari in the enthusiast's world.

Sorry Ron... you ain't no Enzo. You've made exactly ONE fantastic road car in your life. Ferrari has made so many, it's difficult to count.

If performance were the only key to sports car ownership, every 308 would have been on the scap heap long ago as everyone switched to used Porsche 911's for the same price.

Instead, a lot of 911's have been through the recycle bin.

Case closed.

 

Just saying, you aren't doing Ferrari owners any favors by making a comment like that.

 

Not saying there will be a downfall. McLaren can, however, assert brand traits that other Ferrari competitors cannot, such as a successful history in F1.

 

As a garagiste.

Ferrari won with their own lump.

 

First year will be sold out before even any cars show up at dealers.
Basically,here in States at least,they are all already spoken for,the entire 2011 allotment.
There are enough guys ready to buy them if only for curiosity or "newness" factor.
Second year might be a different story though....

 

And the first 10 or so will likely be flipped for above MSRP.

Best thing about this car is that the 458 Scuderia version is going to be wicked...

 

The question is... the king of WHAT? What if someone is king and no one cares?

I say again.. there is NO WAY Ron will sell 4000 12's a year without selling at least as many as 458's in the US. With 1/3 of the dealerships and a brand name that most in the US could really care less about, it's impossible.

The speed limit in the US is 70 MPH. Just because a McLaren goes around a track a couple of seconds faster isn't going to make most people cancel their Italia orders anytime soon.

If you don't think lust and ego come into play when owning a super car, you're not listening to the posts on Fchat. There is no justifiable reason to own one aside from lust and ego. You can always find a faster car (or make one) somewhere.

The day someone's at a dinner party and they say "I just bought a McLaren" and the guests don't say "is that a new Mustang?" instead of ooing and aaahing over "I just bought a Ferrari", that's the day Ron can say he has parity with Ferrari.

The McLaren F1 is one of the all time great cars. Ask any Enzo owner if they would trade.

 

The King was dethroned back in 1991 when the NSX arrived
But lucky for Ferrari Honda choose a V6 not an 8 So the dethroning only lasted a short while