They aren't photos, official or otherwise. They are computer enhanced renderings - drawings, in other words - used by Ferrari to show off the car a couple of months before the Frankfurt reveal.
I don't think that's the case here, I'm pretty sure they are actual pictures of the car just shot in studios and so heavily photoshopped to make them look perfect that it appears as a rendering or artificial image. Hopefully someone can clarify.
Well, technically, the suspension will still move just as far, but the chassis will impact the tarmac earlier.....
I guess it's easy to think that you will screw the factory setup with any modifications, however there are many makes that come out with sportier versions of certain models by just adding shorter and/or stiffer springs/shocks. I'm thinking for example about M sport packs for 3-Series BMWs or even the 599 HGTE... did they re-work all the chassis setup or did they just threw in some shorter springs and maybe matching stiffer shocks? I'm no race engineer but suspect that a well setup chassis can't be affected that bad by professionally lowering the ride height a few millimetres. Normally by lowering alone you can improve cornering grip and speeds in most cars, what is by itself a great deal, even if unwantedly you have changed some of the car's cornering attitudes (which of course can be corrected if necessary) That said, the looks improve like 1,000% or more, the 458 should come lower from the factory. And I agree about the official pics, they're most probably real pics but photoshopped to death, as usual.
It depends on what you mean screw up. Since all the adjustments can be undone, nothing is permanent. Most of these cars are sitting on a suspension that are not very sensitive to ride hieght. Secondly, once you change the springs and shocks, it is PERFECTLY reasonable to lower the car with expectations of benefits, whereas without changing the springs and shocks, one should not assume any benefits will acrue (excepting bling) and, indeed, on all predecessors fo the 458 degredations did occur. Do you know that moving the rear of he F355 up by 2 turns on the shock tower (1.5mm) will change a neutral car to an oversteering pig? or that by lowereing the rear by the same amount will cause massive understeer? Do you know that if you lower the front end by 2 turns that the car will be unstable under hard brakes from 150 MPH+ due to the change in the location of the aerodymanic center of pressure? I, personally, think people wanting to look like a real race car on the street deserve to drive around in cars with 2000 lb/in spring rates. But it is YOUR car, and you are allowed (at least over here) to do almost anything you want with it. But when you don't like the results, please take it to a professional to put it back where it was supposed to be.
I would always be doing such mods professionally and of course with the proper front/rear/overall balance. What about the F355, then? I think that this model has a coilover suspension, am I right? As far as I know, one of the features of such device is that a range of different ride heights is allowed, keeping the same springs and shocks. Ok, maybe you should keep that range somewhat in the narrow side, but if you perform a balanced lowering and realigning, I suspect there is not much harm by riding say... 10-15, even 20 mm lower...? Just my thoughts! As for the looks, don't be so cruel We all like sports cars, don't we? One of the reasons for me liking Ferraris and sports cars is their looks: low, wide, stuck to the tarmac... No, I will not try to hide that real race cars are my reference as for the looks, but I don't need a street car so low either, I just feel that the standard 458 sits a bit too high.
Its pretty clear if you lower a 458 it will instantaneoulsy explode, the same thing happened to my twice lowered CS AND 430 Spider, be careful out there.....
Then either you did not read or did not comprehend what I wrote. Try again, please. Ferraris are already REDICULOUSLY low to the tarmac. My F355 comes from the factory at 4.2" of gorund clearance, while someting like a C6 comes with 6". So, in the case of the Vette, you have to lower it 2 full inches to get it as low as a Ferraris comes from teh factory. I don't know where you live or drive, but with 4.2" of ground clearance, I scrape the pan often.
I honestly think it's you who is not reading me. You talked about lowering front OR rear that screw up the balance of your F355, I'm asking what happens if you lower front AND rear.
I told you (indirectly) that the roll axis moves 1.6 times faster at the rear (F355) than at the front (post 9). So if you lower both ends by the same amount you end up with the roll axis (and roll center) way to low at the rear. The roll axis being too low at the rear will enhance understeer. This requires stiffening the front end* to get rid of it. One can do this either with springs, roll bars, or by selecting wider tires at the back, narrower tires at the front, and making air pressure adjustments. Alternately one can figure out the suspension geometry of the 458 and determine how much one can lower the front and rear and maintain the roll axis. However, if you go this route, you will be alterng the aerodynamics of the underbody. {You can probably get away with this if you never drive over 120 MPH.} It is the roll axis that determines how the understeer/oversteer relationship is managed between long radius and short raidus turns at high Gs. Get is set correctly, and the car will remain neutral over a wide gaumut of truns and acceleration out of turns. Get it wrong, and the car will test your confidence in your driving capabilities. (*) it is unlikely that with a lowered car softening up the rear end will be appropriate. As a second point, if you lower the car, you start to decrease the aerodynamic downforce under the car because less air is flowing. It is the flowing velocity of the air under the car that creates the downforce. This can be acompanied by somewhat dramatic movements iin the center of aerodynamic pressure under braking. If you get one of these movements when you really need the brakes to work at high speed, you will not like the outcome. ---------------------------------------- In comparison, a corvette has essentially no change in roll axis when raised or lowered by 2 full inches; and is imune to the effect of ride height (escepting bump steer). Nore does a Vette have underbody aerodynamics in play--which require a certain relationship between front and rear ride heights to generate the expected downforce. So, why does Ferrari use such a suspension architecture? Because it lets them tune the car to a much finer degree than one can <say> a Vette! It is this tuning you are playing with.
OK then to the first point, lowering must be performed accordingly not to upset the balance. I never said a different thing, though. As for the undertray aerodynamics, car racing usually goes on the basis that the lower the car, the greater the downforce.
Too bad the suspension isn't self-leveling. The car could hunker down to 4.2" when parked and at high speed, and ride higher on less than smooth roads, and be manually overridden when entering or leaving a steep parking lot. Maybe they can find a spot of the steering wheel for the override button.
Just to convolute this thread further... Any professional automotive photography uses the same trick, be it in stills or in film: Sandbags. They almost always fill the front and rear with dozens of bags to lower the car. This is particularly true of mass market cars with large wheel gaps but also sports/GTs. IMO, I'd listen to experienced counsel like Alsup. Unless you bought your car to pose in, changing its functional performance and overall usability for an arbitrary aesthetic is a bit silly (you're paying for performance, then throwing it away).
the 570 superleggera released this year in geneva sat lower than how the car is delivered to customers. don't think sandbags were used.
so, when the cs/scuderia version comes out in a few years, we all know it will be lower than the current 458, just as the cs and scuderia were lower than the 360 and 430. granted, those versions had slightly different front/rear fascias and rocker panels...are you saying that the only way to benefit from any bit of a lowered suspension is to wait for maranello to put in their development work on a modified aerodynamics body package in their wind tunnel? another question is something interesting i heard from the service department...they said there were several cases of the air bags having been activated and blown up while driving from a sensor being triggered underneath the car on lowered 430s. if this is the case, was this sensor moved in the scud since it is lower from the factory? i would like to hear from rad (f430gt)...i have read that he was playing around with motons and different spring rates on his scud and novitec sway bars, but i'm not sure if they were set at stock ride height or lower. rad??
Mitch, Thanks for the great information. I was told that the 355 ride height was actually raised for the US cars to meet regulations (? for bumper height). So does lower a US spec 355 actually bring it back to the original factory specs it was designed for in Europe? If so, how much difference is there between US and European specs?
There are lots of tricks for making a car look a little more sexy. What often happens with 'pro' shots is that the car is Photoshopped lower in 'post'. Broadly speaking the body is cut out and dropped down a tad over the wheels. Worth bearing in mind though that, increasingly, 'pro' shoots these days are, in fact, CGI and not photography so the ride heigh is simply set on the model. This is a very informative and interesting thread with some enlightening contributions. Good to hear from some of the pros that lowering can be achieved, if done properly, without affecting the handling (one of the main reasons for buying a Ferrari for me). The car certainly looks better lowered, although if I were lowering I'd probably go for half the drop that I see in the lowered examples. Lowered as far as we see in most of the pics here makes it look a little 'pimp my ride'. Either that or the suspension has collapsed! Lol!
The work shop manual (written in 4 languages) shows one set of numbers for ride height {while at the same time showing that the swiss gear box gets different gears for noise reasons.}
I found the following paragraph at ::http://www.autocarindia.com/news/ferrari-458-test-drive-review That means that the engine bay cooling is linked to the air flowing under the car. Lower the car may get more downforce at the expense of higher engine bay temperatures. But back to your issue:: racing cars are typically bound by a flat bottom rule--in order to prevent real ground effects. And in flat-bottom aerodyanmics, the lower you go the greater the downforce and the lower the drag. http://www.ferrari.com/English/GT_Sport%20Cars/RacingInnovation/Pages/Aerodynamics.aspx and from :: http://wccftech.com/forum/showthread.php?p=290263 So, the bet I can do, without seeing an image of the underbody of the 458, is to advise caution with respect to "respecting the underbody aerodynamics"....
Having spoken to the factory engineers, in a moment of honesty, one confessed that Ferrari are setting these cars up, GLOBALLY, for the key demographic - US buyer, over 200lbs, over 50 years of age, limited driving talent. And this demographic doesn't like their cars to struggle over bumps. Hence the ride height (and recent "understeer on turn-in" balance of recent Ferraris). The ride height has got everything to do with this demographics tastes and sadly a whole lot less to do with Ferrari finding the optimal handling balance. I can't believe that people on this board, some of who have owned sooo many examples of the brand (way more than I) are such schoolboys in thinking that Ferraris products are unimpeachably without compromise. Tweak the height and geo of your cars and you'll realise how much Ferrari hold back in reserve..... Having had alignments and substantial ride height reductions carried out on my GT3's (pre-requisite), 430 Spider and 430 Scuderia, I can emphatically tell you that the cars a) have a far more neutral handling balance (bias AWAY from understeer) b) feel more stable at high speed c) and look sensational. P.S. Speedmore - EXCELLENT job. That's how it's done..
