458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

If you any of you guys hasn't seen this video....

US Launch at Pebble Beach:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pPwXH7RqPw&feature=player_embedded

PS I don't particularly like the car though

 

From Brussels:

just received the information package from the local dealer (who also sells Rolls Royce) in Belgium.

Expected price range (without options, including 21% VAT): between 180,000 and 220,000 EUR (price for naked 458 in Belgium: 197,000 EUR, price for SLS AMG: 185,000 EUR)
Showroom will be opening in early 2011, but factory tours are being offered to potential customers and reservations are already possible.

P.S. did anybody already explain in previous posts where the name comes from ?

Cheers,
Frank

 

Jay Leno and the Governator were both there.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Quoting from some media materials:

• 'MP4' has been the chassis designation for all McLaren Formula 1 cars since 1981. It stands for McLaren Project 4, resulting from the merger of Ron Dennis' Project 4 organisation with McLaren.
• The '12' refers to McLaren's internal Vehicle Performance Index through which it rates key performance criteria both for competitors and for its own cars. The criteria combine power, weight, emissions, and aerodynamic efficiency. The coalition of all these values delivers an overall performance index that has been used as a benchmark throughout the car's development.
• The 'C' refers to Carbon, highlighting the unique application of carbon fibre technology to the future range of McLaren sports cars.
The elements of this name represent everything that the McLaren MP4-12C stands for:

Therefore:
• 'MP4' represents the racing bloodline
• '12' represents the focus on complete performance and efficiency
• 'C' represents the revolutionary Carbon MonoCell

I would have preferred something a little more sensible and easy to explain you know, like a 4.5 liter V8.

Incidentally, when talking with the folks at McLaren I was told there will be 7 models across their lineup in the coming few years. Three variants of the MP4-12C (standard, spider and a "Scuderia"-like version). There *will* be a replacement for the vaunted F1 with only one variant and then a lower priced car below the MP4-12C...sort of an entry version to McLaren. That one will also have three variants as described above.

Interestingly, Frank Stephenson (Design Director) said that this current car has been on the board for more than 5 years and he had to work with that when he joined up. He said the next models will be "incredibly attractive" and "unlike anything you've seen before".

As it stands, the 458 is much prettier than the Mac. But, in person, the Mac does have a very good presence and understated functionality to it. And, as in all cars, colours and such do play a huge role in the overall appearance.

 

My thoughts are simple, I am glad to see McClaren in the game with Lambo and Ferrari.
Ferrari consumers only gain by this situation so let the games begin. Ferrari has the
top brand recognition and McClaren wants it - huge difference. You want the best of the best buy a Ferrari, if you want a little of this and a little of that then shop on.

The 612 had a few last minute bumps in hp due to the arrival of the Bentley gt - 30hp
McClaren will be successful but at 250k I prefer a Ferrari badge in my garage.

 

If the next generation one comes soon and it's a looker it will be a serious contender.

 

Hmmm... odd that the design director seems to be making apologies for the aesthetics immediately after launch.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Highly subjective, of course, but I am of the crowd that differs. From a side and 3/4 profile, the 458 is sleek indeed, but head-on front and from the rear is where Pinin lost the plot. Not to mention an instrument binnacle and A/C vents that look more like GT-R than clean and classic. Plus the Mac has dihedral doors.

I suspect this is where this thread now spirals into opinionated drivel, but since people are voicing subjective comments on styling.

 

U are in the UK of course you know McLaren, this side of the pond, less then 1/10th of 1% has even a clue.....so it renders them no more of a "brand" than Tata here. This sounds harsh but it is true. W/o a dealer network and some history they will have an asterisk here as could've been.

That being written I am an F1 fan and would love the McLaren, as a stablemate to a 458! The construction alone makes my mouth water.

 

He's not, in fact he is pretty proud of the design and even gets slightly discouraged when people criticize it. The design is not meant to necessarily be beautiful as much as it is functional.

 

The design is supposed to be quite radical, makes "the Porsche 918 look two generations behind"

 

ROTFLMAO

and still rolling........please move me up too!

 

Here is my suggestion for the next model name:
R2D2C3PO :

- R2: redevelopment phase 2 which refers to extrapolated aluminium- carbon fiber- magnesium -titanium component mix of the chassis

- D2: design phase 2 where more focus is place on attractiveness of interior design and taking cues from the Millenium Falcon Cockpit

- C3: carbon fibre Component 3: the new carbon fibre cockpit with reinformed crash zones and foot airbags

- PO: Performance Objective to indicate reaching that 401Km/hr speed limit to detrone the Bugatti Eggshell

Of course, George Lucas will be invited to the VIP opening and the first car will be appearing in "Star Wars - The Next Generation" , to be released in October 2012.

))

Ok, time to get a coffee and see if I can get tickets for Sunday's F-1 race in Spa...

Cheers,
F

 

Not sure how it is in MN, but here in Toronto we have a large, multicultural city. Watching World Cup soccer is massive, here, and also many F1 fans. Certainly, most car guys and gals know McLaren.

 

I saw the 458 @ Ferrari New York on park ave. and was impressed a lot. But I think I'd rather have an MP4 because it will be a more rare find. I see a lot of Ferraris and they all look great. The performance will probably be better as well. BUt it did impress me.

 

Kinda speaking for us south of the border, I asked 10 of my pals if they knew who McLaren was tonight. They all asked what team he had played for, or if he was a new recruit at The Ohio State University( I am at my place in Cinci this week) then I asked them who Ferrari was, one guy even knew who Enzo, Dino, and Michael Schumacher were.......as well as where Modena was on a map of Italy. I mean no disrespect to McLaren ( I would love one) but just trying to be realistic, they just are unknown and Dennis will not be around if they ever achieve the awareness of the prancing horses.

 

unknown in the US.... but in Europe or Asia, anybody interested in motorsport know and respect McLaren

 

That could be rectified easily. All they have to do is place one in a rap video or a movie and everybody will be talking about the new McLaren.

 

Like they did the Saleen S7?

It takes more than that to build a brand.

I guarantee you... if they took off the McLaren badge and put on a Jaguar badge, they would sell more in the US. There's a far bigger romance of owning a Jaguar than a something manufacturer of F1 cars.

Most people in the US don't know and don't care that Ferrari competes in F1. They don't care and don't follow it. It's obvious. If all the Ferrari lovers watched F1 races, Speed's ratings would be through the roof.

All the general public knows are the sexy, expensive sports cars they've seen for years. That's what sells Ferrari in the US. That's why Ferrari isn't that concerned about having an F1 race in the US -- it's biggest market.

McLaren's racing involvement will give it credibility. But it takes more than that to build a brand. I bet Tesla has about as much brand recognition in the US as McLaren.

 

That was a Saleen. Mclaren has it all and all it takes is to get the word out.

 

Regardless the general McLaren brand recognition in US, they will probably sell every single one of them in at least the first couple years, that should get the word out. I saw the car at Pebble Beach this month, it was very impressive.

 

If that were the case, the SLR would have been a bit hit for McLaren in the US. It wasn't. It had "it all" -- power, engineering, hand built exclusivity, looks, and even Mercedes to give it some credibility.

It's not just the name and not just the car itself that sells supercars. When you get to that level, it has to be more -- the romance.

There's plenty of romance associated with Ferrari and Lamborghini. There's simply none in the US for McLaren.

 

That car was aimed at a very different buyer than, the 458 or MP4 and IMO it was ugly, I don't think it had it all, if you are comparing it to a 430/458 buyer, which is what this topic is about.

I am a Ferrari aficionado & owner of over 20 years & I definitely consider the MP4 a serious contender for my money as do many on here, as can be witnessed by this thread.

I agree McLaren may not have the heritage in road cars that Ferrari does, but as evidenced by the original F1, when they are serious about a road car they can hit the mark. I think they will sell plenty of cars, they will eat into 458 sales at some level, the buyer that wants, to use your words... power, engineering, hand built exclusivity, looks (the jury is out on that I agree) then the MP4 has these, as does the 458 along with the looks.

I don't think just the Ferrari name & mystique is enough to stop many potential buyers taking a serious look at the MP4.

I just don't think one can be so definite - until we see & drive the MP4 & see direct real world comparisons to the 458 - that it will not sell well in the US or anywhere else for that matter.

 

There will be Ferrari buyers who will not only look into this car, but buy it, but i don't think any bite into the 458 sales will be much to talk about. The point which I think is trying to be put across is that the 458 buyer already wants the Italia. Those on the fence will take a closer look at the competition.



_J