http://planetf1.com/news/3213/6368845/-Drivers-Title-Is-For-The-Drivers-To-Win- I admire his stance in the face of others, including team owners who feel otherwise. Brave and interesting.
Very interesting. Button has been an incredible teammate for Hamilton this year. He has played that role with skill and grace. Note how he held up the pack at Spa so that Lewis could build a gap just before Vettel crashed into him. I admire him for his team spirit. He would not need "orders." He does it because he understands his role. Note what Peter Sauber said today on the issue. http://bit.ly/dCR5VJ
Team orders used to be common occurence during the pre-war era (Mercedes-Benz, Auto-Union and Alfa-Romeo) and in several instances they were ignored. Ferrari also used team orders in the 50s and 60s, but some drivers just ignored them and accepted the consequences. Chapman also used team orders. If team orders become the norm, I am sure that we could see some drivers ignoring them. Team owners may have to introduce new clauses in the drivers contracts, and that could be interesting. It may be more genuine to call drivers 'number one' and 'number two', so that the public knows what to expect.
hello never realy posted here before but wach alot of f1 on bbc during the turikish gp vettel hit webber leaving lewis in 1st and button 2nd button was ready to overtake lewis then lewis went on the radio and said i was told jenson wouldent ovetake me seconds later button backed off it seams to me he was given a team order just like massa just my thoughts
You are absolutely correct. In fact, it is proven on F1.com's own race edit! The big difference there was that Jenson was on board with the move. So there was no real controversy. Massa was clearly not on the same page with Ferrari and showed it on his face during the podium ceremony and the press conference. You need a willing participant to pull it off with grace.
Here, I whipped up a little montage to show you how NOT to accept team orders. Image Unavailable, Please Login
the main thing that gets on my nerves is martin whitmarsh after the race he was talking to eddie jordan saying his team would never cheat mclaren wearnt fined 100 million for speeding in the pit lane they got the fine for having entire plans for ferrari f1 car not only are they cheats they are liers
No team orders?? Hamilton's already paving the way for it to happen. "If I'm in a certain position I deserve to be in that position, so it (giving way) wouldn't feel right for me," added Hamilton. "However, if it meant my team-mate could win title, that's different. "If he has done a better job than me over the year, and then he is behind me, on my tail, quicker than me, I wouldn't make my car as wide as the track. "I'd still make him work for it, and he'd maybe do the same, but I don't think he would cut me up and crash into me for example."
Your 100% correct, these drivers and teams who are criticising Ferrari for the German GP are all complete hypocrites. Any instruction from the team to driver that alters the speed of the car is changing the outcome of the race, and is therefore in terms of the rules, an "illegal team order". It does not matter if the team is telling driver to over-take or not over-take, save fuel, or any of a 100 other performance changing things. Drivers are merely employees, and the employer has the right to direct there staff in the way they feel is best for the success of there business. I have heard many people say that Ferrari made fools of the F1 fans by doing an open driver position switch, but its really the teams who disguise there team orders with fake mistakes on track or the fumbled pit-stops that are really deceiving the public. We all know that Massa had the speed in Germany to win the race, but so far through out this season he has not shown the same consistent form to be a clear challenger for the Drivers title, he knows that, and we know that, and the team knows that, so what's the problem with them giving his team mate all the advantages they can.. For the fans that criticise Ferrari's use of team orders, maybe its time they were educated about the history of Grand Prix racing. Ferrari knows better then anyone how important every point can be, as they have lost and won many titles in recent years by only a handful of points or single events in races ( 1997, 1998, 1999, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008 to name a few ). I feel Buttons stance on team orders comes from that fact that he knows he is ever going to be the number one above Hamilton at Mclaren, he simply does not have the raw speed or talent to do that.
You really want to compare Button passing Hamilton and them banging wheels with Massa parking his car after Alonso turned his engine up in the German GP? BTW Button DID pass Hamilton http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/06/04/mclaren-told-hamilton-button-wouldnt-pass-him-during-the-turkish-grand-prix/ Really? Come on it is not even on the same planet.
I think what simpson98 was referring too was that we can conclude from the incidents in Turkey that Mclaren do employ Team-Orders. If they don't, why would Lewis bother to ask if Button would pass him? And why was Lewis then so angry after the race about Button overtaking him? It was also clear as soon as Lewis took back the place at turn 1, that Button was then ordered to stop his attack, as he immediately dropped of Lewis's pace, which he had been beating in the laps previous. Being ordered to hold position is exactly the same as being ordered to switch. Its still a team-order that's effecting the possible result of the race.
+1 (if My team allow Me to agree with this post, I'll just check). As I have pointed out before about his very subject, Button was suddenly getting radio messages to say his fuel was critical and that he wouldn't make the end of the race unless he backed right off while Hamilton received no such fuel warnings himself. Come the end of the race, it was found by the FIA that button had 6 times as much fuel left as Hamilton!. Strangely enough, Ferrari themselves noted and queried this very situation from the Turkish GP at their hearing!. simpson98: The thing you need to realise about the F1 section on this site is that there are certain people who post on here, who, no matter what the evidence says, cannot accept that McLaren are no different to any other team in F1 and bend the rules, use team orders, copy other peoples ideas etc., etc. As far as they are concerned, God is the CEO of the team, the Dalai Lama is the team manager and snow white and father Christmas are the drivers or in other words, they can do no wrong and are always right!. The strange part is though, they then accuse the Ferrari fans on here of being blinkered!. As for Jenson Button, the reason he's making these statements is because he knows which way a team order would go every time at McLaren while Hamilton's there!.
"As for Jenson Button, the reason he's making these statements is because he knows which way a team order would go every time at McLaren while Hamilton's there!." Prove it! I think his statement is clear. He hasnt been a victim of it yet but has stated publicly 2 times now, in the press he will leave. Good for him. Too bad Massa wont do the same. As if todays pole for Alonso was anything but orchestrated. No matter what Alonso would have been ahead of Massa pole or not. Massa stayed out longer and Fernando pitted after his first lap that set pole. Given the engine management reality in Germany today was no different. Funny how in the earlier Q Massa was faster. I knew in Q3 no such luck would occur for him. Massa has no soul left. As SRT said in another thread Alonso and basically the entire team have dumped on him. I applaud Jens and his attitude. Its not racing when the conclusion is foregone to say the least. A title by Alonso this year would not be an honest one, no matter what FA has been saying. Alonso the pathetic. I find his mindset of denial about Germany laughable. Much as he is. He ran from the only real competition he has ever faced, LH. He folded and left like the terrace furniture I have.
i dident make the post to justify ferraris actions just saying all team have orders and drivers souldent criticize each other when they are all at it
Rrrreeeaaaalllyyyy!!!??, If that's what he thinks, he might just want to have another look at his Turkish GP experience again!. simpson98: pay attention here, you've made a fatal Ferrarichat F1 error: Now as DF1 and patricko will tell you, your statement should be that only Ferrari have team orders, none of the rest, (especially McLaren, they never do anything wrong or break any rules!), have ever used them!. you need to stop listening to the FIA, Bernie Ecclestone, Damon Hill, Michael Schumacher and the majority of current F1 drivers when they say teams use team orders one way or another. None of them know what the hell they're on about!.
Please prove where I stated that ONLY Ferrari have team orders. Post it. Ferrari are the biggest, latest idiots on using them. The others have been less blatant if used or didnt yet. Sooner or later they will given the circumstances. Yes I think they are not good. As a fan I dont like it. Keep my name out of responses to other posters you address. Dont do it again. In no way do you speak for me.
No need to take it so personally!, it's just the impression you give in your posts about what happened with Ferrari at the German GP. Your attacks seem to imply that only Ferrari use team orders in races, be they direct or indirect. As for calling teams that use team orders/instructions "Idiots", that's a bit out of order!. To Me it would be far more idiotic to risk losing a WDC because you won't use team orders (oh!, hang on: http://planetf1.com/news/18227/6371129/Whitmarsh-Rather-lose-than-use-team-orders ). I don't seem to recall the F1 history books ever stating that the team that won the Championship in any certain year didn't really win it because they didn't do it: "in the right way". Still, if it makes your life easier, I'll just ignore your pro-McLaren/ anti-Ferrari posts in future, but try to remember that this is a Ferrari based site, so opinions may just be slightly biased towards Ferrari's view on things.
+1 my thoughts exactly about Button......he came to this team understanding he's their #2 driver and I believe he's ok with it. He has his WDC which I think was mostly a fluke but whatever he won it and now he's simply content being at Maclaren I think
I respectfully disagree. For all the vitriol sometimes aimed Mclaren's way, I'm pretty sure they've *never* had an "understanding" of #1 and 2 jockey's. They generally make a big noise at the start of the season to this effect as well - "Joint #1's" blah blah. [Sure, Fred figured he'd be the de-facto #1 back in 08, but he was never promised it IIRC....] Don't want to post a spoiler from quali, but you get my point...... Cheers, Ian
