The Search Is Over ...

There where lots of revisions made on the later cars so its really worthwhile checking if the car has main ferrari dealer service history for the first 3 years of its life. Some of these can be dangerous if not fixed and some can cause real annoyances, some cause major headaches.

Very early cars which weren't service at a main dealer in their lifetime didn't get the recall campaigns applied so they have all sorts of issues that should have been corrected by main dealers.

There are many many things such as ;
o Do the engine bay drip trays have a water channel in them, i.e. are they completely smooth flat panels or do they have a ridge at the half way point? If they are the flat version then its likely this is an early car. The flat panels allowed water to drip down straight back onto the hot exhaust which resulted in condensation which would repeat the cycle. (design updated to add the water channels)

o ABS vacuum pipe collapsing onto themselves under heavy breaking causing loss of servo assistance (design updated).

o Oil disarators which didn't vent correctly leading to large smoke clouds of white smoke in hot countries (design updated) when left to idle when very hot.

o Engine mounting points at the chassis that needed strenthening otherwise they could crack and cost thousands to put right and so on.

o TCU's that ate clutches for breakfast (software updated).

o Engine Cam Variators. When where the belts last replaced and where the variators done at the same time?

o etc.


The price sounds fantastic!!

Good luck!

 

Any pics of the inside?

Steering Wheel
Check what's been done about de-activating the steering wheel airbag when the aftermarket wheel was added. Is it easy to put back? Do any airbags work now? Any pictures? Check the airbag lights when the key is put in the ignition, do they illuminate or has someone just removed the bulb? Was this wheel put on to hide an accident that trigged it? Perhaps they didn't want to pay for a new airbag (expensive on the 360).

CF Mirrors
Its worth noting that the CF mirrors are copies of the 360GT ones made in Asia and don't fold thus you could have difficulty parking it in a normal parking bay (they extend wider than the normal ones). They do improve performance being more aerodynamic but the mirrors themselves are very small but they have no motorized mirror controls or heating element (not required in Middle east I guess, lol!). The centre console controls therefore for mirrors won't do anything in this car.

CS Badging Removal
Its clearly not a CS or even sporting a CS bodykit so agree it looks a little naff, check however if the original Modena challenge grill hasn't had holes drilled into it to fit the badge (the cs uses a completely different grille made of lightweight aluminium with pre-drilled holes). If your planning to remove it (bad), if it has you may have to replace the grille or get it somehow fixed and repainted.

Dark Painted Wheels
Closely inspect the wheels to check how well they have been repainted, they are evidently regular Modena ones just painted dark so it should be relatively easy to get them re-colored.

Other points to consider...
Check in the history for when they replaced the wheels, did they also check the geometry in the service history? This is well worth doing (or getting knocked off the price) as it will drastically improve or prevent uneven tyre wear.

 

I like the looks of the red one more. The mirrors and wheels are a plus. The challenge stradale script would have to go. If it checks out, it would be a nice addition. Are you selling your 348?

 

Ok, finally dug out my notes I've taken over the past 5 years of looking at these cars. Hopefully these should come in valuable when looking at 360's in general!

Feel free to add comments
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360trev's Ferrari 360 buying advice...

I think its very difficult to buy a perfect Ferrari 360 (even if your an expert on cars in general) and not potentially get stung on big ticket items. You may identify some but not all of the issues. Therefore in my opinion you really need a Ferrari 360 expert to look over your prospective car for you before you can part with you hard earned money. Only then can you have piece of mind in the knowledge its all been properly checked.

Since 360's where built in relatively small numbers there was a lot of 'updating' of the design during its lifetime so later cars are both better built and have many of the earlier clunky issues solved or designed out. The final incarnation of this is a CS or you could even argue a late spec F430 (seriously, its essentially the same car, same Alcoa chassis (braced a little more), same shocks (reprogrammed) etc. ).

Some tips for general inspection (before you get in the experts..)

Bodywork
Go around whole bodywork, take your time and check for poor paint repairs or any bubbling or damage - spend some proper time, check for differences in colour between panels not forgetting to look to see any differences or differing gaps between panels, for instance check the door gaps are equal and the same on both sides. Does the door gap on one side of the car align or look the same as the other (they should do)? Lift up window rubbers and check paint colour carefully looking out for any differences in paint depth.

Carefully check for overspray everywhere including wheel arches, etc. If you can get the car in a dark garage and use a fluorescent lamp or fluorescent tube lighting to carefully look at all the panels. This is the best possible way to visually inspect without using a professional paint depth indicator as its far easier to see damage or poor paint under this kind of lighting.

Check paint for swirl mark damage (if its in a dusty environment like in Dubai I doubt you'll find many cars, even new ones that pass this test perfectly) but also check for paint drips (or sanding marks), as these are usually an indication of a not very high quality re-paint. Also check if there evidence to corroborate any re-painting you find (even if its just for paint chip correction in the service history?) it should be documented.

If your unhappy at this point definately walk away or you'll just end up spending later - big time. Check things like lights and indicators in daylight (while they are turned off), is one brighter/cleaner looking than another? If its been replaced why has it been replaced? Accident perhaps? Check lights, check light are aligned against a wall - they should be pointing straight the reflection.

Mechanical
Properly test drive the car on both fast highways/motorways and A-roads, check for clutch slip and correct gears operation and smooth throttle. If on an f1 check on SD2 the clutch wear indication (if possible). On a manual gearboxes ensure its easy and smooth to select gears from both cold and warm. Don't just test the car that's already warm, insist on testing in a cold engine situation too. Especially check for any slop in the gear change (it can require a replacement bush - a common failure), also check for 1st to 2nd and 5th to 6th - adjustment can be done to the cables but if its not working correctly it may indicate something far more worrying and further investigation is worthwhile! Do a foot to the floor acceleration in 6th, can you notice any clutch slip? Hook up an SD2 to check for any logged fault codes and for clutch wear if its a f1 box. Does the clutch pedal feel floppy or go floppy during the drive (its likely to be the throw out bearing and you'll most likely need a new clutch).

Suspension & Steering
Again definately go around the car on a set of proper inspection ramps or a pit and check underbody for damage, check for anything unusual or any signs of repairs.

Check for knocking and clonking from suspension during your test drive, can sound like a bag of nails rattling around from the lower dash/footwell area, if its got this fault don't walk away but investigate further, its highly likely to be ball joints. When you have the car lifted in the air check if you can detect any play in the wheel by just pulling on it, if you can its likely its either the front lower or upper ball joints (very common failure) or wheel bearings.

Put steering on full lock and drive around slowly in a circle checking for any horrible grinding noises. If on the 360 you must take off the underbody plastic panelling to check things. Be very suspect of aftermarket alloys as they usually have the wrong offsets (if not originally Ferrari wheels) or are heavier leading to worse handling characteristics. Observe newer parts - why where they changed? E.g. if a lower wishbone appears newer than everything else its highly likely to have been in an accident and had just that part replaced if there is not any documented evidence of its replacement in the SH.

Inspect the rubber bushes, are they perished and cracked? Do they need replacing? On a older car now these are very likely candidates for replacent anyway and if they are original's I'd budget in to replace them anyway to make the car handle like a new one.

Engine
Watch how the owner treats the car when the engine is cold. Does he wait for it to warm up before giving it a lot of revs? For the engine its well worth getting a compression test done on the cylinders, check cold starts, warm starts. Carefully look at engine dials in the instrumentation, check oil temps, oil pressure and keep an eye on them during the warm up cycle (takes quite a while to fully warm up).

Check condition of oil - dont forget the 360 has dry sump so you need to check level using procedure from owners manual (normally with engine running or seconds after its been turned off). Check quality of oil, is it clean-ish? does it feel
smooth between your fingers, any signs of dust or grit? Check all levels are topped up. Check for visual leaks from gaskets. Use a torch and spend some proper time (also look for any cracks on cast parts). definitely worthwhile spending some
time (when your getting close to committing) to have the undertray body cover removed, check for any signs of oil leaks on it, it can hold quite a bit without signs on the floor.

Tires, Alloys & Brakes
Check tires for wear paying particular attention for uneven wear (by design the inside edge should wear quicker due to negative camber on the factory geometry) which could indicate suspension issues such as misalignment or even accident damage (investigate further!).

Check alloys carefully for any kerbing, look for brake dust, if its much stronger on one wheel (axle sets) than the other front or rear it could indicate a sticky caliper. After coming back from the motorway journey carefully touch your hand on the alloys, if they are hot one one size it could also indicate sticking calipers. Check brake discs for wear, pitting and cracks (360 discs are prone to cracking), check for any scouring, lips on the discs (only do when brakes are cold).

Visually inspect pads for wear. Check that the pads still have the wear indication leads connected, some people cut the wires when the pads get low so there is no warning illuminated (!) that the pads need doing. Check for this!

Exhaust
If its a factory stock system check for white dust in the engine bay, its a sure fire way to tell that the backbox needs replacing. Also check the operation of the valves. Are they sticking?

Interior
Fully check air conditioning and heating are working properly, check all electrical items including electric mirrors, indicators, etc. Visually inspect the wear on steering wheels, gear level (manual) and seats. Do they match the mileage? Are you really happy with the interior quality? If not walk away. Check everything is properly illuminated on the instrument panel as its not bulbs but a complete membrane that needs replacing at considerable cost.

Some known issues...
Note: This list is not exhaustive but a good starting point..

o Early revision car Headlamp units can act like magnifying glasses causes fires so the design was changed (under a recall campaign)...
o Early car clutch assembly - recall campaign
o Early car battery - recall campaign
o Early revision cars - Main engine Coolant pipe bracket can snap allow the pipe to rub leading to failure (full coolant loss!)
o Early revision cars - Engine bay covers without rain channels, misted up engine cover glass
o Early revision cars - Anti-lock braking ECU software problems - stopped working under heavy braking!
o Early revision cars - sometimes a loss of brake servo assistance under braking - regulator valve solution fitted on later cars
o Early revision cars - Oil disarator design flaw, oil can expand and come back on itself leading to plumes of white smoke when idling in hot conditions if its the older design.
o Later revision car - Headlamp units misting up/getting dirt & insects inside the lenses (problem never truely corrected, fixed on F430...)
o EBD Faliure failing to illuminate the Warning light - recall issued
o Door may open inadvertedly as striker retaining plates produced using steel of an incorrect specs - recall issued
o Front compartment may open inadvertedly as striker retaining plates produced using steel of an incorrect specs - recall issued
o Fuel tank may incur damage in a side impact collision - recall issued
o Starter gear ring concern - fixing bolts holding engine starter ring gear to clutch fractures causing damage to clutch housing/surrounding components - recall issued
o Airbag ECU - fixing bolts too short for long term reliability - recall issued
o Fuel Vapour Leaks - defect with roll-over fuel shut off valves. components fracture allowing fuel vapour to be released - recall issued
o Hydraulic steering delivery pipe could cause slight leak - recall issued
o Possibility that the roll-over fuel shut off float valves may fracture - recall issed
o Engine bay fires - various problems (fuel leaks, etc.)
o Oil seal failure under oil fill up bottle (common)
o Knocking ball joints and creaking bolts (very common and never really resolved by factory, hills to stainless steel coated versions of these parts)
o Variator timing failure - resulting in catastrophic engine failure (7, count them, different revisions of the said parts) - many engines went or will die this way!!!
o Failed bearings - resulting in catastrophic engine failure
o Snapped cambelts - resulting in catastrophic engine failure (regular interval replacement in history is essential)
o Gearbox manual shifter (plastic part premature wear) making selecting difficult
o Gearbox f1 shifter - original software ate clutches for breakfast, several revision, eventually fixed from 2002 onwards
o Lots of reported issues with dealer fitted theft Tracking systems draining batteries
o Power Steering fluid can leak ontop red engine covers when moving steering wheel with engine turned off
o Gearbox issues - internal cog failure
o Gearbox linkage - adjustments freq.required, gear select issues.
o Handbrake issues - too weak, cables stretch req. adjustment/replacement


Good luck!

 

A breathtaking list of 'issues' there. Should be required reading for 360 buyers and owners...
CH

 

Awesome write up! That's the first I've read of the 'oil disarator design flaw' Can you elaborate on this? I had this happen to me once and never again. Was there a recall/campaign for this issue?

 

Very sound advice, 360Trev.

Mike, will you be removing the CS stripe as well? The car looks nice - here's to hoping it works out for you!

 

+1 Great information for any 360 buyers. Excellent job 360trev.

 

Makes a person not want one... lol

 

To be perfectly honest the 360 is actually on the whole a very reliable car. Much better screwed together than many of its predecessors. This list must be taken in context that over 3,000 parts make up a modern car. In that light its not so bad!

The 'OMG factor', well thats the reason why I have hesitated to post this list before (and its not exhaustive either...) however it must be stressed that its not just Ferrari that does this most main stream manufacturers do an awful lot of 'upgrades' over the lifetime of a vehicle. Believe me this stuff will be going on right now on the 458 too. Its not just Ferrari either, all manufacturers are improving their cars with each new model year. This is the reason why I've always said as advice to try to buy the later car of the same model (from any manufacturer, ideally don't buy early production car for any brand), try to buy 2 or 3 years into the model cycles and you'll have the most reliable cars if you buy a good one.

On the 360 front, even early cars, many of the faults in the list where either fixed under the radar (during routing servicing) or done as recalls so as long as you've purchased a vehicle that had main dealer SH for its 1st 3 years of life you'll be uneffected by most issues as they will have already been addressed.

Many of the earlier design issues found on early '99 models have almost all been corrected by '02+ cars.

 

Thanks,

I have a lot more information such as every option available when new and decoding of 360 vin's to detect if the cars an import or which market its destined for, etc.

I should really collate a 'definative buyers guide to the 360'.

I've also got an extensive list for prospective CS owners too... Not as big as a 360 (because issues where corrected by 04 but most are specific to the changes they did to make it a CS such as carbon fiber going milky in the engine bay, etc.).

 

The 'oil disarator' is a really annoying one, it happens in what appears to be a 'random' fashion, and is worsened by overfilling the oil level, even just by a small amount.

The problem was the return valve piping position/location in the old design of oil disarator was too low in the neck of the filler itself so when the oil expands (under high heats) and when idling the level can go so high that the return air breather gets filled with oil so some of the excess oil can back up (sucked up under vacuum) into the air breather system and volia (!) lots of horrible white smoke that can scare the hell out of you.

This can happen very sporadically, it happened on a friends car twice in 3,000 miles. Both during idling in city conditions, with no issues during highway high speed cruising. The trick is to turn off the engine as soon as any uneven idling is noticed during waiting in traffic at idling speeds. First you notice uneven idling then smoke starts. If you can park and turn off the engine to let it cool for half an hour you can usually continue your journey uneffected. If too much oil has go into the intake it can take quite a while before its all come out as smoke, just a very small amount of oil results in a LOT of white smoke! Exhibiting the same symtoms as overfilling...

Ferrari updated the design of the disarator (the disarator is the black bottle that the oil filler cap fits to) and there are newer part numbers available. Not sure if it made it into recall or just later model's but you can buy one, either used or new and just replace it, the problem then goes away...

Same thing on the ABS vacuum pipe, early models had a pipe that was too thin and under certain circumstances it could 'collapse in on itself' causing loss of vacuum meaning you lost hydraulic assistance (!) meaning you need to press the pedal a LOT firmer to stop the car. Back off the brake and re-apply and it fixes itself. Alternatively just replace the pipe with the later revised (larger diameter) pipe and the problem goes away. Again only early cars without the replacement pipe.

-T

 

Bang! You just nailed an issue I have had a few times with the car and have never been able to track down. I once idles for 15 minutes waiting on my fries at Wendy's, and when I pulled away I thought the engine was on fire! White smoked the intersection. Thanks, I'm on this.