458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

I think his point is not that Ferrari's are incompetent cars with lots of flair, but rather that while both cars are very good the market for a Ferrari is somewhat different to that for a Porsche GT2 or McLaren.

In essence the Porsche or McLaren are more likely to be bought by driving enthusiasts while the Ferrari is more likely to be bought by Lotto winners, dot.com millionaires and sports men (as well as enthusiasts). It's not a knock on Ferrari, but rather a compliment that their brand AND product is so strong as to be able to attract a wider customer base.

 

All true. But, I doubt he intended to compliment Ferrari, either! Also pertinent is the fact that Mr. Joseph comes from Porsche, so he is probably very comfortable debating on the side of substance over style. Fits Porsche marketing perfectly. McLaren, maybe not so much. I say again, standing next to the 12C with its dihedral doors swung open, "understated" is not a term that comes readily to mind.

If the 12C can draw from both the Ferrari and Porsche customer pools at the same time, it will be quite an accomplishment.

 

I think the majority would be Ferrari owners for the price in Canada will be similar to the F458 and the average price of the 911 is at half of the MC price.

 

watered down??? have you even read about this car?

This thing is so far above and beyond what ferrari has put out technologically. And I LOVE LOVE LOVE the 458... but if you read the technical specifications of this car... and you need at least 2 hrs to learn and understand everything they did and why they did it... not a 45 second skim read... this car is unbelievable. The attention to detail is astonishing.

 

Those dihedral doors are really very interesting (in a sad and boring kind of a way). A long time ago I read an article by Gordon Murray where he insisted on specifiying such doors as it was the optimal way close the seals flush with minimal abrasion or long term damage. He specifically referenced the Lamborghini scissor doors as a design flaw in a super car.

Hence the MP4, F1 and SLR all have the same doors!

 

Surely the design of the Sterling Nova's "door" has even less abrasion when opening and closing?

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Dihedral doors are also very cool though.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

McLaren is also quick to point out that the single hinge (along with the absence of door handles) also saves weight.

 

"Yes, I'm interested."
"Thank you, that will be £15,000."

I don't know what "brand's customers" they could be talking about. Maybe they polled each F1 buyer and got an overwhelming response giving them a giant pat on the back for how out-of-the-way the factory is.

I personally can't stand the doors on this car... It would look so much more... "not-after-market" if they just had them open like regular doors. Now they just look like regular doors opening like irregular doors.

_J

 

What is "interested"? Why not just put a deposit down and buy it? What's going to change your mind later?

If you don't like it, do you just tell McLaren you want you're money back at any time?

I'm believe this press release as much as I do Ferrari claiming a 2 year backlog of California orders the day it was first shown.

Lastly, you don't want to say it will give Ferrari a run for it's money. It sounds like you're not sure it's better. What you want to say is "this car is superior to it's competitors in every way" -- not: "well, for the money, its going give our competitors something to think about".

 

I think the doors look great and I don't understand why Ferrari has never "bought" into all these particular doors like McLaren, Lamborghini and others...

I guess it's a question of personal taste but I find their approach (McLaren) so condescending and patronizing..... Just read at their explanation for the doors on the website
http://www.mclarenautomotive.com/uk/Chapters/Pages/explore_full_dihedral_doors.aspx#/story/Chapters/Pages/explore_full_dihedral_doors

Maybe it's just me being Italian and favouring Ferrari? ;-)

 

I remember the Enzo... but Ferrari seems like it's only using "special" things like these kind of doors, carbon fibre tub and other things only for the super special editions like the Enzo...

I know it's not simple at all to engineer these kind of doors but if others are doing it Ferrari should be able to do it as well. Maybe it's just a "design" issue that they don't want to do it.

 

Here's something to think about. Maybe conventional doors are just better and these exotic doors are just "flashy" marketing gimicks to get attention.

 

Well, there is probably some truth to that, but the doors do become part of the car's persona, in the same way that the Enzo and Gullwing Merc (original and SLS) wouldn't be the same with conventional doors. The dihedral door is now part of McLaren's signature style, so why deviate if all other things are equal (or better)? Beyond the weight savings, the doors also require less clearance to open fully outwards than a conventional door, which can help your passengers avoid dinging other cars, etc. when they exit. This of course, comes at the expense of requiring more vertical clearance, which is a drawback for anybody who will park the vehicle under another car on garage lift.

But sure, you could make the argument that they are flashy and not completely necessary. Then again, neither are tail lights that protrude from bodywork and turn indicator controls mounted on steering wheels.

 

Trying to get an invite from McLaren to go and see the car at Paris Auto show.... I hope I get one to see it in person.

Then I guess I will be able to tell which car looks better at least

 

Gordon Murray (and most of his team who worked on the F1 with him) left McLaren after the SLR fiasco.

The McLaren MP4 cannot be compared to the F1 in any way. Only similarities are the name on the badge

 

+1

_J

 

I'm headed into NYC this am for the private tour from Miller. They had the private cocktail party roll out last nite. I'll post pix and comments later

 

by the sound of it, it's a global issue ...

u nailed it mate ... that's the reason i didn't buy a ferrari ...

 

look cool, but impractical, IMHO ...

 

Who's comparing them? There are few cars ever made that can compare to the F1, and none of them wear a prancing horse badge.

 

My wife and I attended this party. In addition to our California, there was another California and a 430. Most of the other guests arrived in Porsches, Astons, Bentleys, with Porches being the predominant marque. The event was superbly organised and everyone had the opportunity to sit in the car and ask questions. By contrast, my wife and I were also invited to the local launch of the 458 the day before and we walked out after an hour of waiting to be greeted. I'm tempted by the McLaren's design, construction materials, engine, build quality, performance and, most importantly, the attention and McLaren's pay to their customers.

 

The "most important" reason to choose to buy a $300 K sportscar is because you were offended at not being greeted at a party? You --- need more attention?

Now I've heard everything.

 

I hope this doesn't come out the wrong way, but that seems a very odd reason to leave. Did you stay long enough for the unveiling to get a look at the car?

All the best,
Andrew.