Header Nightmare

If it gets to the point that the cat is falling apart a check engine should come on and at that point go straight to the dealer - Its hard to guess when you should change them

 

I'm not so sure I buy into the premise that all will fail prematurely. I suppose it is true that all will fail in the same way that, given enough time, the mortality rate is 100%, but there are at least some cars if not many, that have seen over 30k miles without any header problems. It's not at all clear that header failure/pre-cat failure is widespread, or that they will simply fail w/o warning, causing lots of damage. I definitely agree that it's wise to put $ away for that day, but I don't think I will be changing out my headers unless and until I get some signs of impending failure.

In California, there is at least some concern over using aftermarket headers because of smog inspection issues, so I'm not even sure what the solution would be. Buying a replacement set of OEM headers at $12k a pair (parts only!) would be "safest" but what's to say you get them to last? I don't know how much work is involved with R&R headers but it seems the better route would be a good set of aftermarkets (at around $3k/pr.) modified to take the stock air rails, and keeping the (non-failed) OEMs in the garage in case you get stuck and have to reinstall the OEMs for smog inspection. That could cost plenty and be rather inconvenient, but probably a lot less than the $12k for new OEM headers.

 

Its a huge issue with the 360. I have seen many, and many unhappy owners when confronted with the cost of repair. I have given the option to all. After market without the precats = check engine lights. OEM= big $$$$$. Choose your poison.
Wanna play?? Gotta pay...

 

I hade 30K on my 360 and never had a header issue, in fact I never had any issue with the car except for normal service!

 

The FabSpeed 360 headers now come with an air rail.[/QUOTE]

Talk to Rob at vividracing.

 

My mechanic says #1 is overstated and #2 is not necessarily true. Hopefully he is right. He also says in general things tend to get over hyped on websites like F-chat given the nature of people posting any issue they have with their car, but overall the 360 has been a very reliable model. If something sounds funny with my exhaust I'll talk to him, but until that (hopefully never- knock on wood), I've been just enjoying the car very very much- he said not to be an alarmist with the 360.

-Andrew

 

Getting close to tripping 40k miles on my 360.

Original manifolds on the car. Done almost 10k miles this summer alone.

Just had the headers scoped and smoke tested and all is well!!

I am making a routine at every oil change to have them scoped and smoked. It's worth the extra hour or two in labor IMO.

 

I went down the same path (thinking process), the end result was to:

Buy another set of used factory headers to modify, first by removing the jacket, the pre-cat and then jet hot coat.

(1). I still have my factory headers for any emission issues down the road, and for resale.
(2). 100% eliminate any pre-cat material get sucked back into the engine
(3). More power, icing on the cake and was not my priority.

During my research I spoken with several people who have experienced pre-cat material sucked back into the engine resulting in big repair bills.

I have also spoken with several independent shops who have heard rattling noise from inside the headers resulting from pre-cat breaking up overtime which causing the pre-cat to decreases in diameter. These particular cars with loose pre-cat didn't suffer any engine damage, I assume it is more luck than anything. But where did the loose material go? Into the main cat? Several of these cars also experienced main cat failure, I wonder if it has to do with the debris clogging up the main cat?

One shop described the pre-cat construction on the header as "sloppy last minute job" As the pre-cat were just cramped into a wider chamber immediately after the collector on the headers, the only thing that was holding the pre-cat material was the chamber itself. So if there is any movement of the pre-cat material it will just work itself loose and self destruct over time.

In conclusion after speaking with actual owners who have experienced the explosive pre-cat into the engine issue, and seeing several higher miles 360 with loose pre-cat. I strongly believe there is no doubt that the pre-cat will eventually break up based on the construction and how it is secured. It is just matter of time. Regardless if the break up material will damage the engine or not this is just a risk I am not willing to take.

My 360 at 17000 miles didn't have any header or pre-cat issue, but I decided to address this based on my own personal findings. But that's just my personal decision.

 

Bobby,

Header failure and pre-cat destruction are two completely different matters. Smoke test will only test for cracking of any header pipes or the header itself. Will not be able to tell you if there is any break up of the pre-cat material. Usually when you find out about the pre-cat destruction it is always through some other major failures which leads to the inspection of the pre-cat material or removal of the headers. Because that's when you wonder what's making the rattling noise. Sometimes the pre-cat is only slightly loose so it is impossible to hear the noise when the engine is running.

 

FALSE.

This DOES NOT work.......been there done that.

To get rid of the CEL issue you need to pull the ECU and get it reprogrammed with the wider parameters. I had the Larini cat bypass on my 360 (awesome sound BTW)..........and had to do this to get rid of the CEL.

Resist the urge to get anything else done to the ECU while you are having it reprogrammed......it isn't worth it, and no one has valid dyno tests proving that it is, or at least they didn't back in 2007 when I did my car. FWIW an extra 15 HP (or whatever) at 7,000 RPM isn't necessary.....is it ?

 

It works if you have stock cats.

 

FWIW I bought an 05 430 in 09 got the extended service contract. From the day I got it there were problems with the CEL. FCI took the car back 3 or 4 times in a covered carrier to try to solve the problem. Two days after I got the car home from FCI after a yerly the CEL came on again. This time I said I wanted out of the car and traded for and 07. Turns out the car had had header issues in the past and at some time had injested some of the pre-cat back into the head. That was what had been triggering all the misfire codes with the CEL. They only diagnosed the problem when they tore the engine down. FNA replaced the engine. FCI was very nice during the entire time.

 

I thought 355s were the only cars with issues! LOL

 

Absolutely, did this awhile ago went through whole bunch of full warmed up drive cycle already. I know my CEL is working because I did get a CEL for a fuel evaporator problem, turned out to be a loose gas cap. but so far knock on wood no CEL for cat efficiency issue yet.

 

Not to mention the sticky interior pieces too.

Ferrari is best at keeping their heritage.

 

Sorry this is the only good picture I have. Basically it goes in between the the 2nd set of O2 sensor and the main CAT.

I just did a google search for "18mm o2 extender" and found the first place that sells them and ordered them on line. http://www.water4gas.tv/index3.html
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

That's why i had them gyroscoped. I have pictures of my precats. You need to do both, scope and smoke.

 

The extender is installed on the 2nd set of the o2 sensor, which is strictly used to monitor the cat performance per part of the OBD2 rule does not regulate fuel mixture, the first set of O2 sensor located at the header is what provides the data for fuel mixture adjustment.

However I did feel a big midrange horse powder and torque improvement after removing the pre-cat.