Brawn on MS - proof is in the telemetry | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Brawn on MS - proof is in the telemetry

Discussion in 'F1' started by Ferraripilot, Sep 29, 2010.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,878
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    That would make sense. Pirelli is taking great care in engineering to prevent another Michelin issue from possibly coming up.
     
  2. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,878
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    Ok gotcha. I'll check
     
  3. Phenom

    Phenom Karting

    Dec 30, 2009
    206
    I updated my post, sorry about that.
     
  4. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    45,887
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David
    You mean the "Illegal bodywork cutting into a normal flexing sidewall" issue ?
     
  5. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,878
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!


    wow. is that what happened? I really have no idea
     
  6. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2004
    13,167
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Peter den Biggelaar
    Is that still on and are all teams on board? I mean, it was the teams that decided to give up on the idea. Or will it be mandatory next year?
     
  7. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,878
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!

    Not really sure where they are at with the decision at the moment. I do recall Mercedes announcing earlier in the month that their KERS system will be around 21kg (25kg was previous) and their power supply cost to others will jump from 1m Euro to 6m Euro.
     
  8. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2003
    6,177
    En El 305
    Full Name:
    Barton Workman
    #33 BartonWorkman, Sep 29, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2010
    Having run across this telemetry theroy before, one might
    reply to Brawn by asking to see the graphs proving that
    Schumarcher has equal or better reactions than Rosberg.

    In a closed "shoot out" driver audition test during the CART
    days, four drivers were brought in to Sebring to vie for
    a full season seat.

    Driver 1 came in on the high recommendation of the
    top engineers working in Europe and Japan. This driver won
    at every level, having outshone a few future World Champions,
    a Ferrari F-1 driver as well as Indy 500 and CART champions
    while all were team mates while raising medicore teams to
    championship contenders.

    Driver 2 had just come off a record breaking season in
    Formula Atlantics and got the audition test as an automatic
    reward for having won that championship.

    Driver 1 set the fastest times of the four, by the considerable
    margin over .4 over Driver 2. Driver 1 was visably fastest
    on the track and related information very well to the engineers.

    Even though Driver 2 was .4 slower, he was awarded the
    ride because he was from a country where the title sponsor
    had factories and vested interests, among other things in
    his favor.

    When the times became public knowledge, team management
    was pointedly asked how it was Driver 1 was overlooked
    in favor of Driver 2, the company line was consistently,
    "He had superior throttle traces".

    So, while "superior throttle traces" may look good on
    a laptop screen, they don't necessarilly translate to
    superior speed on the track thus making Mr. Brawn's
    arguement quite lame.

    BHW
     
  9. RWatters

    RWatters Formula 3

    Feb 21, 2006
    1,075
    Kansas
    Schumacher was just *****ing about the car oversteering too much in the last race or two. It's not the freaking car, it's the driver.

    Why Mercedes defends Schumacher so much but doesn't praise Rosberg is beyond me as well. He's done a fantastic job, unlike their other driver who fails to impress at every single race and when given every single opportunity.
     
  10. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,878
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    If their telemetry is the same in fast corners, yet different in slow corners due to lack of mechanical grip needed for Michael's driving style, then how is that not the car? Rosberg has indeed done a great job, but he and his style is not as dependant on mech grip. Rosberg is a great driver, but given greater mech grip, Schu is all day the faster driver and he has proven it over and over.

    Everyone was talking for so long about him being too old and slow in the brain blah blah. Now that issue is debunked, but people still will not come to grips with it being the tires and front end of the car. The guy has won 91 grand prix races. You don't think he knows what he is doing? Once anyone here does that, their opinion will most definitely hold weight. Until then, Michael's defense stands on its own merit.
     
  11. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,878
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    If you remember, Hamilton went through this same crap last season. As did Alonso, but his issue was a bit different. Oh wait, every driver has had car problems at some point or another.
     
  12. Scuderia980

    Scuderia980 F1 Rookie

    Aug 12, 2006
    3,636
    Mountains--Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave S. V
    oh dear. they are really grasping at straws, trying to 'justify' the MS comeback, trying to bandage a serious lack of performance relative to his teammate...
     
  13. RWatters

    RWatters Formula 3

    Feb 21, 2006
    1,075
    Kansas
    I agree that they had issues, but if you noticed when the CAR had issues BOTH drivers had issues. In this case we have a driver doing very well, and another driver struggling to do anything. You absolutely cannot blame the car when one driver is doing perfectly fine and the other can barely keep his head afloat. Period.

    The telemetry doesn't lie: Schumacher sucks.
     
  14. CRG125

    CRG125 F1 Rookie

    Feb 7, 2005
    2,643
    Los Angeles, Ca
    Full Name:
    Vivek
    Well what about when Massa was outpacing Kimi in 2008? Kimi was definitley struggling, but yet the car was working very well for Massa. Kimi is suppost to be one of the most talented drivers ever and couldn't even beat a second rate driver like Massa that year. Same with Button when he was with Renault and Fisichella was his teammate. Button could not even touch Fisi. Now in Micheal's case not only is the car not working for him, but he has been out of the sport for 3 years! Criticize all you want, IMO he is still one of the greatest and I still have faith in him. There is a reason why he signed a 3 year contract and not a one year.
     
  15. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,878
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    you're joking right? Merc is middle-pack running and neither driver is satisfied with their performance. Relatively, I get your point, but both have different driving styles and one of them has nothing to prove and one has consistently proved with 7 titles that he knows how to design a car and that Rome was not built in the first season. Schu never had a WC season his first season with a new team. Rosberg has everything to prove and is thus far doing well, but we'll see next season if the car is better mechanically at the front end. Same thing is going to happen to Barichello next season if the chassis is better for Hulkenburg. Hulk is a far superior driver, but Bar has been quicker. Why? Car is suited better for him.

    I hate to use the musical instrument analogy, but it is all too perfect an analogy for a situation and I went to Berklee college of music and was a professional in New York for quite some time before going into insurance law. Specifically, I am a saxophonist.

    Going to dumb this down the best I can:
    I was asked to play a certain piece which, harmonically, requires certain very fine things to be done which are achieved differently by every player. These harmonics are not on the horn, but are upper extensions of the horn which require splitting of overtones. Everyone achieves this differently, and there is probably less than 100 people on the planet who can do this. Anyway, I was asked by the Yamaha corporation who sponsored me at the time to use their horn to do this as it was a sponsored event. I replied, no, it is 100% not possible for me to do this on your instrument. Others can, but that is their style. Me, I had to use my French made Selmer to make it happen which many Yamaha players cannot make happen with this harmonic in question. It's all a question of style, and is the instrument matched to the player for their style. I am not nearly as good a player with a Yamaha as I am with a vintage Selmer, and vice versa for others.
     
  16. Scuderia980

    Scuderia980 F1 Rookie

    Aug 12, 2006
    3,636
    Mountains--Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave S. V
    oh dear. thinking waaaaaay too hard and too deep.
     
  17. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,878
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!


    I see zero difference.
     
  18. Phenom

    Phenom Karting

    Dec 30, 2009
    206
    Wow... that´s all i got to say to some people here.

    I can´t even be arsed to reply on some of the statements here.
     
  19. Scuderia980

    Scuderia980 F1 Rookie

    Aug 12, 2006
    3,636
    Mountains--Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave S. V
    too hard can be the same ol same ol simple thoughts over and over, where too deep can be over analytical...
     
  20. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    49,676
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    +1

    Telemetry readouts are like statistics to proove/disproove a point. Fake your own for what you need to proove.

    At the end of the day, laptimes is all that counts. Doesn't matter where you loose the time.
     
  21. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,878
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!

    Of course it matters what sort of areas on a track time is lost. That's how racing cars are designed. That's part of the reason telemetry data is recorded.
     
  22. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    45,887
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David

    I appreciate your analogy.
    The lot of the designer, aerodynamicist, and all the other sub-departments is to put together the best car they can. In F1 today that end design is largely fixed at the start of the year.
    It is the lot of the driver to take that package and make it work.
    IMO given proper test time MS is one of the best. Or at least was.
    These are the top handful of drivers in the world. They do have to have the ability to adapt and I do think people under-appreciate the extraordinary talent it takes to drive one of these at the limit. And then are expected to pass on poorly designed circuits with few passing areas. Add a blocking rule. Add unstable aero following another car. I'm surprised there is as much passing as there is.

    That said I'm convinced most of driving at this level is a mental exercise and confidence becomes paramount.
    I would like to see MS get it all together. If anyone can it would be him.
     
  23. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,751


    +1



    I think it's Brabham who used to say: "When the flag drops, the bull**** stops".
     
  24. zaevor2000

    zaevor2000 Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2007
    1,897
    Dallas, TX
    Full Name:
    Frank Waugh
    +1. Very well said...

    Frank
     
  25. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,878
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    Indeed it was. +1
     

Share This Page