Brawn on MS - proof is in the telemetry

driving style is huge. look at kimi raikkonen in his last year at ferrari the car didn't suit him, and it showed. i still don't think age matters nearly as much as focus, attention, persistence, and shear determination in motorsports as it does in other sports.

 

Funny but I always thought the "proof" was in the stopwatch...

 

What people keep forgetting when comparing teammates in cars, is that now, much more than ever, being comfortable in a car is very important regarding driving it quickly. Different drivers have different driving styles, so one is able to push (much) harder than the other when push comes to shove...

This is the point I was trying to make in another thread.

to say that Schumacher sucks means you're an idiot. You don't win 91 GP's by sucking, nor do you win 7 WDC's by sucking.

 

hooray!

 

he also said you need to win at the slowest possible speed so whoever gets fastest lap and doesn't win means nothing

 

Interesting, I guess the telemetry is right.


Fastest Laps
2010 FORMULA 1 SINGTEL SINGAPORE GRAND PRIXPos No Driver Team Lap Time Of Day Avg Speed Time
1 8 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 58 21:56:04 169.137 1:47.976
2 5 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 59 21:57:54 168.879 1:48.141
3 11 Robert Kubica Renault 56 21:53:46 167.157 1:49.255
4 3 Michael Schumacher Mercedes GP 54 21:50:33 166.509 1:49.680
5 6 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 54 21:49:12 166.470 1:49.706
6 16 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 59 22:00:01 166.464 1:49.710
7 1 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 61 22:02:05 166.462 1:49.711
8 4 Nico Rosberg Mercedes GP 55 21:51:13 165.837 1:50.125
9 9 Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 52 21:45:52 165.522 1:50.334
10 2 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 31 21:04:32 164.901 1:50.750
11 12 Vitaly Petrov Renault 46 21:35:06 163.202 1:51.903
12 7 Felipe Massa Ferrari 45 21:33:11 162.945 1:52.079
13 10 Nico Hulkenberg Williams-Cosworth 45 21:33:10 162.751 1:52.213
14 17 Jaime Alguersuari STR-Ferrari 43 21:29:28 162.577 1:52.333
15 14 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 45 21:33:09 162.374 1:52.473
16 22 Nick Heidfeld BMW Sauber-Ferrari 29 21:01:35 162.372 1:52.475
17 25 Lucas di Grassi Virgin-Cosworth 55 21:55:28 162.317 1:52.513
18 19 Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Cosworth 53 21:48:37 161.544 1:53.051
19 24 Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 38 21:22:02 160.822 1:53.559
20 23 Kamui Kobayashi BMW Sauber-Ferrari 22 20:47:36 160.260 1:53.957
21 18 Jarno Trulli Lotus-Cosworth 20 20:46:19 156.915 1:56.386
22 20 Christian Klien HRT-Cosworth 23 20:50:46 155.077 1:57.766
23 21 Bruno Senna HRT-Cosworth 19 20:42:57 154.819 1:57.96

 

In other words, Nico is better than Schumi. Although he didn't say so, clearly Nico is as good as Michael in the fast corners (because that's where most of the time is). And better in the slow corners.

If the car had more mechanical grip in slow corners, it seems likely that Nico would be able to take advantage of it and would still outpace MS.

 

Actually, in F1 they 2-foot brake these days. I'm 100% serious.

 

Apart from the incurable Schumacher worshippers, that's the general concensus ...

 

+1

 

Brawn's explaination though laudable is pointless. What his description says is that MS is no slower than Nico in fact corners, but he is in fact slower than Nico in the slow corners. He just used the data to prove MS is slower. We already knew that.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for MS but I feel anyone thinking he will somehow return to dominance will be disappointed. Michael's only fault is that he is past his prime. He is not a poor driver but I do believe that given the other drivers around him in this day that he is mid-pack.

Rule #1 is always be faster than your teammate who is competing with identical equipment. Any argument about the car, tires etc is semantics.

Anyone remember Michael Jordan's comeback? Both these stories have much in common.

 

He knows that, and he's said it before. Yet somehow he's still there driving and we're not.

The people who are much smarter than us are paying him millions to drive and still have him in the car. They could stop him driving any time they choose and put someone else in the seat. They haven't yet...maybe they will...who knows...but if he was as bad as he looks on paper, surely Haug and Brawn wouldn't stupid enough to keep him there regardless.

Like the rest of us, I'm just guessing, but it wouldn't make sense. SOMEONE somewhere is getting something out of him being there. Maybe his pull is stronger for the team than his performance? *shrug*

as chris crocker would say 'leave poor michael alone'

hehe

 

According to the newspapers (yeah, yeah, I know das Bild etc) he is making 7 millions from Mercedes (and some additional 12 from merchandising). So MB isn't really paying him that much (speaking here in relative F1 drivers salary/F1 costs terms).

I have no idea what it would cost MB to cancel their 3 year contract but I'm sure it would be some additional millions, so there is some understandable hesitancy not to do so.

MS also provides some media attention, which still leads to publicity. And as the saying goes, any PR is good PR.

So the real calculation for MB is more how much money do they loose by firing MS versus what would they actually gain by putting a more competent driver (Sutil?) into their second cockpit? They already have a #1 driver, who is pretty darn good, so the second seat doesn't really matter that much.

So unless the (mostly German) public demands that MS be sent packing, financially it is probably better to keep the aging star in the cockpit. But don't confuse this decision with an endorsement of his abilities at this point

 

I think Michael's marketing appeal to Mercedes may be losing it's gloss .

I think they expected him to be closer to the front and would make huge promotional adverts of this but as he is fighting so far down the field his marketing appeal has waned and they will make an assessment soon re his future.

He's still a brilliant driver but Nico is showing him up and all the other drivers are adding him to their resume (I passed MS in several races so I must be good )

and you know I like Mike

 

Most of us (except Isobel) thought that MS getting the 2nd seat next to Nico would be the kiss of death for Rosberg's career. And look how that turned out to be the exact opposite: After Alonso he is now the second driver to have slayed the dragon...akin to St. George.

 

I don't like seeing anyone adding MS to their resume' after such a great career (eliminating the embarrassing moments )

It'd be like watching me beat Jack Brabham tomorrow, (I could only do that if he was on his dialysis) and then me saying I beat a 3xWDC

Mike was the best, he's lost enough for the current hotshots to beat him, he needs a good car, but I fear given a good car Nico might be forced to yield for wins to appease the Mercedes marketing crowd, in the old days it would have been MS "allowing" his team mate a win to keep the peace in the camp (like Rubens at the USGP )

 

A lot of people forget about that race.

 

human nature is to remember only the bad

you can do a million good things but do one bad thing and they are all over you

 

maybe. he could just sit it out. they could put some young hotshot in the seat and not pay very much at all, really....but would he be better than MS? or...maybe they've just made a crap decision and now they're seriously stuck with it.

embarrassing? slow? old? maybe....but I still think I wouldn't mind being in MS's shoes

 

That's the point: As long as MB isn't gunning for the championship (and I think they're never gonna be in that position), it doesn't really matter whether they have two top notch drivers or not.

On the two occasions I drove a F1 myself I was embarrassingly slow. But I didn't care one bit.

MS is slow compared to his past, but he is still a mid fielder worthy of a F1 seat, which beats 99% of the world's population. Nice way to have some fun in your retirement.

 

that's what I've been saying all along. if one day he happens to do something extraordinary, well good for him.

I'm not holding my breath though, just in case.

 

oh come on, give it a go

remember what that mechanic said to you at the funeral you went to, one of the funniest things I have ever heard said to someone at a funeral

 

The brain does in fact work that way. Surgeons do in fact lose their ability when they get old enough to have shaky hands. Race car drivers do in fact lose their ability when they get older and their reaction times (mental and physical) decrease. Racing at the F1 level is a very physical sport and demands the utmost ATHLETIC performance, which decreases with age.