Water/oil heat exchanger

Anyone have experience with one of those (modine?) water/oil heat exchangers?

When I go faster than 120 mph for more than 10 minutes, the oil really starts to heat up, to the point where I need to back down in order for it to cool a bit.

(And strangely, in everyday life with the Dino this is proving to be a significant limitation ).

I've used one of these heat exchangers on a Subaru engine on my aircraft, where it worked flawlessly and was able to keep the oil cool at all conditions. Anyone done this on a 308/328? What size heat exchanger did you use? Is the exchanger itself sufficient to cool the oil, or did you put it in series with the stock oil cooler?

Thanks!

Hans

(Are these still for sale? I cannot seem to find them in google any more, nor at Summit)

 

I have never run into your problem as here in the states it is a rare occasion that we can get up to those speeds! But the times I have made it up to those speeds and greater, I have run into the same issue.

An answer to your problem may be to just use a larger oil cooler or rethink the positioning of your current oil cooler so you might figure a way for more air to flow through.

 

That seems like a good solution. Thing is that I never seem to run out of water cooling capacity. Might as well benefit from a free lunch and use that capacity.

I might indeed end up with a larger oil cooler though.

And having the German Autobahn not too far away can indeed be a Godsent...

 

Yeah it must be nice having a high speed shootout area close to you!

I am wondering how big of an oil cooler will be big enough. If you are looking for a decrease of say 15-20 degrees I would think a cooler with a capacity of .5L more would do the trick.

 

Mke had one on his car. He is now on Ferrari life, you should ask him how his worked.

 

Hans, do you already have an electric fan on your oil cooler, or is it just passive flow from forward movement of the car? The later 3X8s have a smallish electric fan on the oil cooler and that seems to work well in controlling oil temps.

 

No, no fan there yet. Thing is that my temp problems only occur at 120 mph+, and I doubt if a fan will be of any use at those speeds.

Worth a try though... Thanks!

I had emailed Mark Eberhardt, but my email bounced. Will try again...

 

Hans the 360 has an oil/water heat exchanger which lies under the plenum chamber . I have one and can take some pic's for you .
I thought it was more for getting the oil up to temp quicker ?? than controling excess oil temp .
Have you thought of trying a different weight/grade oil ?

 

Are you sure the ACTUAL oil temp is too high? My 328 was at 140MPH+ for a while and 120MPH+ for quite a while out in AZ/NV in 108F outside temps and the oil temp on the gauge was never very high. Of course, my dash gauge could be reading wrong (too low?) just as your gauge could be wrong (too high?).

If possible I'd check it with a mechanical gauge. As far as "safe" temps, I have seen statements from Mobil (re Mobil 1) that constant oil temps of 240F are fine and short term temps of up to 300F are OK.

 

You are dead right about modern oil being perfectly at home with really high temps, especially a good synthetic. 355s and 360s aren't really considered warmed up until the oil temp is at least around 200-220 degrees and they see far higher temps then that on the track. Closer to 300 on many occasions is my understanding.

 

Hans, just a quick thought, but have you checked to be sure that the oil cooler fins are clean and not clogged with debris? I'm not totally familiar with the setup on the Dino, but on the 308/328, the left side intake feeds air to the cooler. It's easy to suck in some junk and over time clog up the fins, reducing the cooling capacity.

It is probably worth taking off the intake plenum and doing a reverse wash on the cooler to flush out any debris in there, or use compressed air from the reverse side to make sure it's clean. It could be something as simple as that. I've seen it on radiators and air conditioning systems, and sometime just washing the fins out from the back side and making sure there are no obstructions does the trick.

 

p.s. Wish I had that problem -- too much time over 120 mph. In the NY/NJ metro area, it's more like 120 minutes per mile, not 120 miles per hour.

 

Install an Accusump in the trunk. That will add an additional 1 to 3 quarts of oil depending on which unit you purchase. It will also pressurize your engine with oil while starting. 2 benefits. Another option is to mount an oil cooler under the left side headlight. I have both on my 308QV - never an oil issue.

 

Actually, some of the GT4's have a "door" on the duct to the oil cooler to allow it to warm on cold days...make sure it is open, but I am sure Hans knows all about that.

I would opt for a larger oil cooler, and perhaps a thermostatically controlled Spal fan too.
If fact if you are open to modifications, I would put an inline thermostat to the oil cooler like on the 355 and later cars, which helps the oil warm up faster. Then have a thermostatically controlled fan on the oil cooler. That would be a great set up.

 

Hans,
In reference to your parenthetical question, I've listed a few options.
Here is what Superformance offers for the 246, likely adaptable to your GT4. The first appears to be OE type at 498 Pounds/570 Euro, the second is stainless upgrade at 745 Pounds/853 Euro. http://www.superformance.co.uk/a-246/eg.htm
They are both pricey...and rather heavy, so read on.

Here's a similar component from Aeroquip in aluminum via Jeg's at 340USD/244 Euro. (It's the schematic below the Superformance pics.) Slightly different layout, but similar process, for a considerable savings in money...and weight.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Aeroquip/023/FBM2194/10002/-1?parentProductId=748625
Here's the narrative from Aeroquip: "The concept of oil-to-water cooling is to cool the oil by running it through a heat absorbing, water cooled manifold. These coolers can be mounted in radiator hose lines in virtually any position and do not consume precious underhood airflow to other areas like common liquid-to-air coolers do. Aeroquip's dyno test show that with 8 gallons/minute oil flow and 50 gallons/minute water flow, oil temperature was decreased by a whopping 28°, adding only 2° to coolant temperature! Cooler features: -12AN oil line in/out fittings and standard radiator hose cooling line fittings. Aluminum construction throughout assures lasting service and excellent cooling properties."

And, in your neck o' the woods with colder climes, there are added benefits of a heat exchanger: A quicker warming of oil to operating temp; keeping the oil warmed up during 'normal' driving.
'trust this helps a bit,
Coop
(Oh, the stock exchanger works well for warming and cooling on my 246. I don't track the car, and can't drive it at the speeds that you can in Europa, but for light-to-moderate usage, it is just fine. I don't have the specs on the stock unit for comparo, but the Aeroquip one may have more capacity as it's designed to run on big 'mericun V-8s!)
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Brilliant, thank you!!

I'll start looking for the aeroquip unit. Like I said, I have one on my plane and there it works brilliantly. Didn't know who produced it though. It came with the engine...

Thanks!!

 

Even cheaper here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Aeroquip-FBM2194-Oil-Cooler-w-Beaded-Tube-Fitting-/290486022669?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a250f20d

 

Time to move to the Netherlands! I imagine someone getting to drive for about 10 seconds above 120 mph around here, then spending the remaining 9 min 50 sec speaking to the officer!

 

Hans,

The 308 oil-to-air heat exchanger is a bit of a joke. It takes the heat from the oil and blows it back at the engine to help keep the oil hot.

My 78 Euro 308GTB is supercharged and I use it on the street and at track events. the car has a Setrab water-to-oil heat exchanger mounted on the fire-wall in front of the engine, down low, that works extremely well. I think they're made in Sweden. I don't remember the part number but Setrab only makes them in a few sizes. I just picked out the largest unit I could fit in the car.

Wil

 

There ya go. It pays to shop around.
Thanks for the tip,
Coop

 

The GT4 one exits into the wheel well.

 

?? Mine doesn't! It dumps the hot air on top of the rear cylinder bank.