Has Bernie got the wrong end of the stick? | FerrariChat

Has Bernie got the wrong end of the stick?

Discussion in 'F1' started by 4rePhill, Oct 19, 2010.

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  1. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
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    Phill J
    Having just read this article: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87526 , as I see it, I think Bernie's got the situation a little bit backward.

    He talks about teams trying to rig the rules to give themselves an advantage, but so far this year it appears that certain teams are trying to rig the rules to try to hamper other teams that have an advantage.

    the most obvious one this season has been the flexi-front wing situation concerning Red Bull (and to a lesser extent Ferrari), where other teams (most noticeably McLaren), have called for, and successfully had introduced, heavier and heavier load tests for the front wings to try to prevent the Red Bull front wing from flexing. This has now reached the point where Red Bull are concerned that the load test is going to either break the front wing or induce internal stresses that could cause a failure mid race.

    Next we have: "Richard Branson has backed the call from Lotus boss Tony Fernandes to get rid of blue flags in grand prix racing" .(From: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87186 ).

    They want the rules to be changed so they don't have to jump out of the way four times during a race to be lapped.
    Some of the statements they make are frankly ridiculous:

    Tony Fernandes: "If it's really hard for a world champion to get past a backmarker then I think it's a sad day for racing. I think racing is all about getting past people and overtaking and adding a little bit of 'je ne sais quoi'.

    (Surely racing is all about being competitive, overtaking and trying to get past people who are on the same lap as you?. Being overtaken four times in a race by the same car because you're that slow is not racing!).

    Branson, the main backer of newcomer Virgin Racing, agreed with Fernandes, as he reckons the sport would be more entertaining without them:

    " "It would be a lot more fun if they didn't have blue flags," said Branson. "I am sure some of the more established teams would not like it, but it is a racing track and they should not have to be told to pull over".

    Virgin Racing's CEO Graeme Lowdon reckons blue flags hurt smaller teams too much, as they lose big amounts of time letting the leading drivers through.

    So they want the rules that handicap their race to be got rid off and think it would be entertaining to handicap those teams who have made a better effort to have a competitive car by getting in the way!.
     
  2. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    Ridiculous? That is only your opinion.

    Many don't see why backmarkers have to compromise their own race to let pass the leaders about to lap them. After all, the leaders are supposed to benefit from superior cars and better skills already, no?

    The backmarkers are running their own race among themselves and being forced to slow down to make room for a faster car is spoiling their effort.

    Many object mostly to the way the blue flag are used.
    They are often deployed too early, when the leader is not in position to overtake yet.
    The backmarker had to "sit" on one or two corners, to allow the leader to catch up whilst the marshall are waving blue flag freneticaly, loosing precious time against his direct competitors.
    Sometimes, the marshall get it wrong after refuelling and wave the blue flag to drivers who are NOT about to be lapped at all!
     
  3. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    Wrong. They start in the same race as all others. It's up to them to keep up with the rest. Id they're lapped, they're not in the same race anymore and shouldn't hamper those that are.

    May I remember you the days when a blue flag wasn't enforced very much? René Arnoux was notorious for not letting front runners pass, ruining nice battles up front in the process. I bet you would get mad with a backmarker pretty quickly when he ruines the fight at the front.
     
  4. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #4 Bas, Oct 20, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2010
    So because a few teams haven't got it right and their car is ridiculously slow, faster teams should suffer because of them?

    The teams lapping the other actually race for points, the backmarkers are not. To get rid of the blue flag is ridiculous.
     
  5. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Exactly.
     
  6. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 DGS, Oct 20, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2010
    Compare ALS or LeMans. Don't you think the GP2 cars should get out of the way of the LMP1 machines?

    But I suspect it's been quite some time since Bernie paid a visit to planet Earth. ;)
    Gold, Silver, Bronze? Dropping classic tracks for all-alike Tilke tracks in Elbownia?

    Adding new "spec" car teams to a manufacturers' series?
    While chasing off genuine car makers?

    Klaatu barada nicto, Bernie. :p

    I'm more concerned with the fallout from the tire supplier change.
    Nobody wanted to make F1 tires for a 13 inch rim, so they're upping the rim size.
    But the reason for the smaller rims was to limit brake size.
    Increase braking, and you make overtaking even harder.
     
  7. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
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    Is that true? I know the guys who were interested in supplying tires wanted to up the rim size, but I thought they caved (?)

    Do they need bigger brakes? Damn, they stop on a dime as it is. However, easy rule fix would be to limit brake sizes - They may look weird (little tiny rotors inside huge rims looks really stupid, but we'd get over it....)

    Cheers,
    Ian
     
  8. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes, they are in the same race, so I don't see why some drivers are supposed to bow to faster competitors.

    The leaders have sometimes done some overtaking already (among the faster cars) before they catch up with the backmarkers. So what's the problem with overtaking slower cars?

    Why should a chap in 15th position and about to pass the car in 14th position, have suddenly to stop his attack and compromise several corners just to let the 2 leaders lapping him? By slowing down, he may not only loose sight of the guy in front of him, but also allow the car behind to catch up!!

    Why do the leaders pretend they have such problems with backmarkers when they have superior cars and probably superior skills?

    No, I don't get mad, I find it amusing when 2 leaders with competitive cars fight tooth and nails and overtake each others at the front of the field, then complain about backmarkers 'being uncooperative' and slowing them down. That's farcical!!!

    Do Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Webber or Button do each others favours when they fight among themselves? Why, then, do they expect di Grassi, Chandrun, de La Rosa, or Kovalainen not to do the same?

    The blue flag should be only a warning that a faster car is behind you, but with no obligation to let it pass.
     
  9. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    It would be interesting to get the opinion of a guy like Kovalainen, who's gone from a front-runner (and Grand Prix winner) to a backmarker.....
     
  10. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    The main problem is that even with a vastly superior car it's still very difficult to pass if possible at all. We've seen many times in the recent past that cars that were up to two seconds a lap faster couldn't overtake a slower car (that for example had not pitted yet, or the faster guy had made a previous mistake or bad start). It's not that evident that a faster driver/car has a real chance to overtake, unfortunately.

    There were a few overtaking manouvres lately that were possible because of the huge difference in grip (fresh tires against worn tires). In those cases it's not just a matter of faster car (aerodynamically, suspension wise, engine wise) but a better braking/accelerating one.

    But this was not the point of the OP. Yes, Bernie doesn't know what he's talking about ;)
     

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