Slow down light in the cold | FerrariChat

Slow down light in the cold

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by drjeeva, Oct 25, 2010.

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  1. drjeeva

    drjeeva Karting

    Jul 21, 2007
    113
    Ipoh, Perak, Malaysi
    Full Name:
    Jeevaraj Nadarajah
    I have an unusual problem. I have a 2001 red 550 maranello which runs perfectly but over the past month or so whenever I take it out for a spin in the early mornings or in the evenings/night ( esp in the rain ) the slow down light comes on immediately and remains on throughout the drive. The problem is severe enuf to cause the engine to cut back and I can only manage speeds of 160km/hr at the most. At all other times the car runs fantastic and I can easily reach speeds in excess of 200km/hr. I think it is the cold ie low ambient temperature causing the problem. Any ideas guys? I've never encountered similar problems in the forum before. Help
     
  2. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    #2 Ricambi America, Oct 25, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
    My guess, is a failed cat ECU:

    http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=208023

    6000 miles away, hard to diagnose. Are you running standard catalysts? When the slow down light is illuminated, have you checked if the cats are perhaps glowing red? If they are, then the problem is the cats are indeed overheated, and the ECU is doing the right thing by cutting off fuel. If they are glowing red, STOP. You've got a failed cat, but the real probably is likely upstream somewhere else.
     
  3. drjeeva

    drjeeva Karting

    Jul 21, 2007
    113
    Ipoh, Perak, Malaysi
    Full Name:
    Jeevaraj Nadarajah
    Thanks for the reply. Appreciate it. Problem occurred about three months back when the light came on any time I drove the car. New cat ECU's placed, new cats, thermocouples changed and the problem was solved for all of three months. Now I get the lights on whenever the ambient temp is low.....
     
  4. deanhalter

    deanhalter Formula Junior

    Dec 27, 2008
    357
    Norco, CA
    Full Name:
    Dean Halter
    I was getting these when the temps were low outside as well. I noted that when it happened, the car seemed to be running on 6. I shut the car off and restarted and the problem went away.

    I think what was happening is the car wasn't building fuel pressure quick enough and was shutting the bank down with the weaker pump.

    What I now do is turn the key on and wait for 10 seconds before I crank the engine - never had the problem return.
     
  5. piersg

    piersg Karting

    Jun 26, 2007
    61
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Piers
    I had a similar issue on my 98 550, however the problem became more consistent so having done all the expensive things with no improvement finally changed the relays for both fuel pumps, and the problem has never returned. Moto of the story for me:
    Do the cheap things first, as the problem can turn out to be very simple instead of dreading the worst and spending an unnecessary fortune.

    Good luck solving the problem.
     
  6. drjeeva

    drjeeva Karting

    Jul 21, 2007
    113
    Ipoh, Perak, Malaysi
    Full Name:
    Jeevaraj Nadarajah
    Hi guys, those who have read my earlier posts will know that I have had a long running inconsistent problem with slow down lights for the past 18 months!!!! After all checks by the ferrari guys here with diagnostics etc, the problem always seems to be in the ecu's for the oxygen/thermocouple sensors. However even changing the units only solved the problem for a few weeks......well finally the problem is solved. The dealer whom i bought the car from...a ferrari enthusiast himself...finally had a brainwave and asked me what Ron rating fuel I was using...aha!!! ironically enuf I was using Shell V power 97. He said that this ws not suitable for the car and advised me to use BHP or Petronas Ron 95 and to cut a long story short the dreaded slow down light has not been seen for the past two weeks even with driving in all conditions...and I'm the happiest guy ever enjoying my beautiful rosso red 550.
    Yaahhhooooo
     
  7. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,017
    socal
    I don't understand the mechanism of action of why a RON level in fuel would make any differenece or why the fuel pump action would have an effect on the SDECU's. Can someone explain that to me?
     
  8. drjeeva

    drjeeva Karting

    Jul 21, 2007
    113
    Ipoh, Perak, Malaysi
    Full Name:
    Jeevaraj Nadarajah
    Here is an extract from my earlier post and ALL the steps that were done......I have a year 2000, red Ferrari 550 which is or rather which was in immaculate condition. The past three months the red slow down light used to come on intermittently at random occasions while driving. The engine ran fine and the light would go out by itself. Ferrari dealer said that it was probably due to the O2 sensors. The last two weeks however the light comes on continuously and the engine cuts power to one cylinder bank. My baby has been in the workshop since then and all attempts to rectify the problem so far has come to zilch. O2sensors changed, thermocouples changed, ecru unit changed, cats changed and still no dice. The diagnostic check says it's a problem with the "emission" at least that's what the mechanic says.......any one with any ideas? She has only done 30,000 km so far and really is in immaculate condition. Please help. PS the dealers say that the will ship in a more sophisticated diagnostic unit next week but I'm rather sceptical.
     
  9. drjeeva

    drjeeva Karting

    Jul 21, 2007
    113
    Ipoh, Perak, Malaysi
    Full Name:
    Jeevaraj Nadarajah
    I used Ron95 in the first few months and then caltex Ron97 before using shell V power racing (?Ron98/100) and then finally Shell V power 97 exclusively in recent times.
     
  10. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,017
    socal
    Does the light go out when the car is warm?
     
  11. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    On 456's the small CEL ECU's (173533) that are mounted on the A-pillars are sometimes not 100% sealed anymore after the years (or the connectors to it), with the result that they develop CEL warnings in wet weather. Perhaps your 550 has the same issue?
     
  12. drjeeva

    drjeeva Karting

    Jul 21, 2007
    113
    Ipoh, Perak, Malaysi
    Full Name:
    Jeevaraj Nadarajah
    Initially the light came on intermittently in cold weather ( cold being relative as I live in the tropics and the temp rarely goes below 23C ) and went out spontaneously. Later the lights came on intermittently even in warm or hot days. In the beginning the lights came on after a about 1 hour of driving and as the problem got worse the interval became shorter and they came on after 10 mins and at the height of the problem the lights came on after a minute of starting the engine and never went off! But now there are no slow down lights at all. Har har har
     
  13. drjeeva

    drjeeva Karting

    Jul 21, 2007
    113
    Ipoh, Perak, Malaysi
    Full Name:
    Jeevaraj Nadarajah
    I dont think so as these were repeatedly changed with new ones while the ferrari service guys were trying to figure out the cause of the slow down lights...I went thru three pairs of new ecu units...
    Everytime the car was sent to the ferrari service centre (abt 205km away) the slow down light problem would eventually settle down but once it arrived back at my home the problem would surface after a couple of days...looking back I think this coincided with me filling up with Shell v power 97 fuel..
     
  14. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    Ok, sorry i should have read the thread better. Then I can think of a few other ones, I think there must be an issue as I don't think the car would be so delicate that it could not handle different fuels. Could be a failure of intake gaskets (the torque on the intake plenum to head lessens over time, causing gasket material to get sucked in, causing a leak), misfiring because of a spark plug lead gone bad (this because you mention wet weather is worse), or a gas cap or tank venting issue since you mention issues after fillups. Could be other things too such as bad plugs or injectors, or fuel pressure being low.

    Is it always the same bank causing the issue?
     
  15. drjeeva

    drjeeva Karting

    Jul 21, 2007
    113
    Ipoh, Perak, Malaysi
    Full Name:
    Jeevaraj Nadarajah
    It appears as a slow down warning light and only started to cut the power to one bank some months later as the problem became bad. It then stopped after "service" by Ferrari and then reappeared after a few weeks but no power cut. It didn't show which bank was involved. So far she's been behaving herself after changing the fuel grade. A gasket leak was thought off by Ferrari but then disregarded. Anyway I'll drive her and enjoy the car and let you guys know if the lights come on again.....fingers crossed.
     
  16. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    How and why was the gasket issue disregarded, while the cats were changed? It's a common issue on these engines, and not always very noticable from the top. It's a much more common issue than the catalysts - which were changed but this was not looked at?

    Anyway you might want to check the sparkplugs anyhow (and their color). If a gasket leak occurs it should be visible when 'reading" the plug (much whiter than the rest, indicating higher temperatures from running lean). It mostly happens with one of the center cylinders on either side. Not sure what driving on with this issue could cause in damage (if any), maybe Rifledriver knows?

    As you say maybe it's fixed with different fuel, enjoy it for now!
     
  17. gsjohnson

    gsjohnson Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
    2,291
    Woodland Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    GS Johnson
    I believe the problem is deeper than the type of fuel you are using as well.
     
  18. drjeeva

    drjeeva Karting

    Jul 21, 2007
    113
    Ipoh, Perak, Malaysi
    Full Name:
    Jeevaraj Nadarajah
    hi guys, forgive my naivety...after reading all the comments from you I called up the ferrari service guys to check on what exactly was done to my 550 on the latest service visit. Well it turns out that they finally got the diagnostic unit from singapore and plugged it in and the error codes indicated that there was a problem with the thermocouple sensors which plugged into the exhausts. It seems the last time they DID not replace them because no new unit were available so they "cleaned" them up with a blow torch ?!! and plugged them back. This time they had new units and these were plugged back into the exhaust.
    The dealer recommended ron95 fuel since these have less additives that can disrupt the sensitivity of the sensors...sorry for the misinformation "Blush"
     
  19. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,017
    socal
    That totally makes sense because the sdecu takes readings from less than 1 volt cold to about 3V for a sdlight hot to about 4 v for a bank shutdown blazing hot. Don't quote me on the voltages i did not look them up but the operational voltage it reads is 0-5V and communicates that signal to the motronic. So if the sdecu works at all other times except cold it would imply that thermocouples could be an issue. Did not need special tools to diagnose that especially after all the other parts have been changed. That also implys that you can bypass the SCECU and make a better system to monitor cat temps and I have done that and proven that it works. Prior to the 5.2 motronic you could just unplug the SDECU without ill effects. But with the 5.2 and above Ferrari is making it harder and harder to delete their lame baby sitters. One day I'll take the time to figure out how to bypass their dumb alarm too.
     

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