*Spoiler* RBR IS AN ILLUSION!!!!!

Fair enough. I bet lasts years championship led to a huge boost in sale of Brawns. Does this also mean that Bennetton never won any championships? Do McLaren or Williams count?

 

It is important to the marketing departments of their respective engine suppliers.

 

Couldn't disagree with the OP more... Consider...

Williams...
McLaren...
Sauber...

Way more passion than we have seen from many mfg's in recent years...

Jaguar...
Toyota...
Honda...
BMW...

Red Bull has pushed F1 forward... And it's been great for the sport to see a new team win.

 

Same can be said about a constructor. Look at toyota. they pulled out too and yet they were making their own engine.

When you look at it, every team is just a bunch of hired people and you have to start somewhere.

I dont think they are an illusion. Sure there is no RB engine but they made assembled product that won the championship.

 

I'm pretty sure your average of the shelf Ferrari doesn't have a single part in common with the F10. Or the F60. Or any F1 from 2000 > now.

 

Red Bull Racing is a racing division of the Red Bull empire that is involved in multiple racing series, not just F1. They are just as legit as any other racing outfit in existence. And by your definition, there are only 4 F1 teams that are not an "illusion", Ferrari, Renault, Mercedes and McLaren.

 

I agree that no team has he history of Ferrari, but to say that Red Bull is in some way not a real team because it is owned by a drinks company makes no sense. Using that logic would mean that Schumacher is 'only' a 5 times champion because his first 2 wins were for a clothing manufacturer.
Also, car companies are probably more fickle than Red Bull when it comes to F1. Remember Jaguar, or BMW, or Toyota, or Honda? All jumped ship when the marketing men decided they weeen't getting enough return on the investment.
To me it makes no difference if the ultimate aim is to sell more caffinated drinks, Renault Twingos, Ferrari 458's, or Mastercard applications (remember 1997?), companies will always use F1 as a marketing tool. The people working for the teams don't care who is paying the bills, they just want to win. I don't believe that an engineer at Red Bull is less motivated to win than one at Ferrari.

Another way of looking at it is that Stewart Grand Prix have won the championship, or weren't they a proper team either?

 

Could not have said it any better. The fact of the matter is RBR has come up from the remains of Stewart and Jag.

Brawn did the same last season taking what was left of BAR and Honda, and turning it into a winning team.

 

Not really

 

Actually, Adrian Newey rules.

Think about this. Not too long ago RBR was a little start up group known as Stewart racing. For them to beat the giants in such a short time is amazing. You could say that too about Brawn but they were very much tied with the old Honda program.

I'm very happy to lose to RBR. If it were McLaren I'd be darned upset.

 

Sorry you are pissed. But absolutely can not agree with your position. Red Bull has been good for F1, they are giving the normal Ferrari/McLaren battle a run for its money. If this were a Ferrari/McLaren repeat, most people including me would be watching reruns of Two And A Half Men instead of the next boring F1 parade.

Tyrrell was not a car manufacturer, and as mentioned before, Sauber, Williams, Ensign, Wolf, etc, they all added to F1's future. Honestly, until this coming year, you really could not call McLaren a car manufacturerer, and in fact they use Mercedes engines.

The WCC is quite important, and I certainly hope that Webber wins the WDC.

 

If you can call everyone telling you that you are incorrect a discussion...

 

50 years???

 

Quite simply, Red Bull Racing has had the better car all year long - better even than the mighty Scuderia Ferrari. I stand among the Tifosi, but you cannot deny that Red Bull Racing has done an incredible job of resurrecting a virtually 'dead' racing team and turning it back to winning ways.

As to it having "NOTHING OF AN AUTOMOBILE MAKER DESIGNER CONSTRUCTOR", they were at least smart enough to retain the services of Adrian Newey - one of the very best F1 designers of the modern day.

You beat me to it, Anthony.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

I'm sorry what about Nascar, Indy racing most of those teams are sponsored by either drinks companys of food companys, these are the people who have the money to sponsor, just think it was only a few years ago when all race cars were sponsored by tobbaco companies.

 

You can seek recognition without dismissing the efforts of other teams - which you still do to in your conciliatory post.

Particularly in a thread that touts the current F1 Constructor's Champion as being somehow a false team, it does look rather silly.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Just to level the field a bit, the OP has a point.

Red Bull will only be there while some marketing guys think that it´s profitable. The guys who run the team are true racers, but for the marketing guy, they really don´t build racing cars, but moving billboards.

That said those billboards are moving really fast this year, so that deserves some credit.

 

Add Minardi to the list. There's a fellow who had as much passion for racing as Enzo did. In fact, you can include Ferrari to that list as well if you go back to the time where he solely built race cars. Isn't it a well-known fact that Ferrari only decided to build road cars to finance his racing team?

 

Cash is no illusion in this sport.

 

+1