Dual-Clutch Gearbox Alternative

There have been more than a few comments about the size and weight of the dual-clutch unit on the 458, so find it interesting that Lambo have shunned the dual-clutch transmission on the Murci replacement and have gone with what they call the ISR (independent Shift Rod) concept.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/10q4/lamborghini_murcielago_replacement_v12_powertrain_details-auto_shows

From the description, sounds like what they are using in F1 "seamless" gearboxes these days, so Lambo's claims about it being smaller and lighter a very believable. Size and weight in F1 are critical, which explains why they don't use dual-clutch.

Shift times must still be very good, despite there being some interruption of power transmission while single clutch disengages/re-engages. If it's good enough for F1...

Anyway, gearbox is made by Italian supplier Graziano, so maybe we'll see it as a weight saving development some day.

 

I read somewhere that the new Lamborghini ISR transmissions weighs only 79 kilograms and the new ferrari 458 transmission weighs about 25 kilograms (55 pounds).

 

I own both a 2010 560-4 Lambo Galardo and a 2010 458. As a normal driver not a race car person the differences are noooticeable.

The 458 is a 7 speed amd the Lambo is 6 speed

Lambo is electric and the 458 is an oil clutch. This means at a stop you must put the Lambo in nutral to protect the clutch, It is not needed in the 458.

The lambo in sport mode as you slow down pops the throttle to save life on the clutch . It also make the 6 speed to 1st gear very smooth and it sounds very cool. The 458 does not do this. the 458 in race mode is jerky and it shifts down. In normal mode it is less so and not very noticeable.

The dpk on the 458 makes shifting as you speed up very quick and very smooth. The lambo is slower to shift and no where near as smooth.

If you ask which is technically better or more fun to drive it is a tough question. I like them both. In sport mode I love the Lambo sound and extra power, But it is crude compared to the 458 which is quicker , smother and has more gears.

My opinion is the ferrari 458 has a more thechnical and better gear box. My issue is I enjoy the Lambo in sport mode when I am in a more playful mood. In normal mode it is very smooth like the 458 but no fun. The 458 is fun in all modes at some degree.

Someone will yell at me but I have not tried the corsca mode on the Lambo transmission. Why do you ask? because the dealer vtold me not to because it is bad for the clutch.

Both 2010 cars F1 or E1's are better transmissions than the cars before.

Lee

 

This ISR gearbox is completely different from your Gallardo's E Gear.

 

From the Getrag (458 gearbox supplier) catalog, their dual clutch gearbox for a mid-engine application weighs 120 kg (264 lbs):

http://www.getrag.de/en/253

 

F1 doesn't use dual-cluth because its forbidden, not beacuase of the weight.

 

pdk on 458????? pdk is on porsches only

 

Do you even know what a dual clutch is ? PDK is only a name by Porsche. The 458 has dual clutch trans.

 

I thought ferrari make and design there own clutch?

 

here are the articles that I got my information on the weight of transmission.

http://germancarscene.com/2010/11/15/lamborghini-reveals-new-v12-unit-and-isr-transmission/

http://www.*********.com/forums/458-430-360/31881-2010-ferrari-458-italia-first-drive-inside-line.html

 

I know it's outlawed now (because of possibilities to "blend" a couple of gear ratios), but even before that, there was only (rumored) limited use of dual-clutch, because of overall size, weight and complexity.

 

The actual quote for the 458 is:

"The dual-clutch transmission weighs about 25 kilograms (55 pounds) more than the F430's gearbox".

 

Oh yeah, I see now. Misunderstanding I was just scanning though the article. You are right.

 

dual clutch yes recent cars but not pdk PDK ( the name is only given for Porsche)

its like saying tiptronic (slushbox) for every single car No , its only for porsches , Steptronic is for BMW , S tronic is for audi >>>

i hope you got the idea

 

you cannot say F 458 ITALIA has PDK - as a matter of fact, you can say that it has an Ferrari F1 Seven speed transmission - Dual Clutch system type

 

Especially since the P stands for Porsche, as in "Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe".

It's interesting that Porsche developed this for racing almost 30 years ago on their Group C 956 (or 962 ?) yet I don't think there are any top-level race-cars using a dual-clutch set up today.

 

Or we can just call it the Getrag 7 speed dual clutch transmission since the same internals of the transmission are being shared between several different auto manufacturers.

Most mfg's today do not make there own transmissions.

Porsche is using the ZF version.

VW group including Bugatti excluding the R8 and Lambo's are using a Borg-Warner design.

Mercedes and BMW are using the same Getrag versions as Ferrari.

ect...

 

Veyron gearbox was designed and manufactured by Ricardo.

 

Good article about all the players in the DCT field:

http://www.articlefield.com/89237/dual-clutch-transmission/