Ferrari S.p.A. copyright infringement to FCA - strong arming or closer to the source?

I can see how F have the right to protect their trademarks. How much of the logo stuff can you buy anyway? If it gets too pricey it won't sell. They probably have sites like this on their radar too that only exist and are able to sell advertising because they use the word Ferrari.

 

Ferrari continues to exist because of its race history; not because of its automobile and merchandise sales. Most of its money comes from F1 where they gain the majority of their income!

 

Hi Guys,

This is Al DeLauro, FCA President. At TexasMike's request, I'm offering a few words that might help clarify some of what has been discussed regarding our revitalized relationship with Ferrari. This has been a good discussion and I am happy to be part of it.

We have reached an agreement with Ferrari due to their need to better protect their trademarks. It is reported that Ferrari earns more money from their intellectual property (trademarks) than they do from the sale of cars. Whether this is true or just urban legend, the fact is that the licensing of their trademarks provides a very substantial portion of the profit to their bottom line. Hence, control of their intellectual property is critical to their profitability, indeed to their very survival. We have recognized that fact, just as we recognized our moral obligation to respect their right to control their own property.

Since 1964 we have had a license from Ferrari to use our now historic logo. Our new agreement, undertaken at Ferrari's request, replaces that license. We have been friends with them for 48 years, and we want to stay friends with them; we both benefit from a mutually supportive relationship

This agreement gives Ferrari the protections that it needs and gives the FCA a continuing supportive relationship with the company that builds the cars that are central to our common interest. We continue to operate freely as a club, they continue to operate successfully as a business.

The agreement itself is confidential because Ferrari asked that it be so. They have their reasons for asking that this be the case and we have respected that request; it is part of the final agreement.

A few points clarified:

We do not have to buy regalia from Ferrari. We (at all levels - national, regional, chapter) will continue to source our stuff locally, and, as long as it does not use a Ferrari trademark (e.g. a prancing horse, nose badge, fender shield, our old logo, etc) we can do anything we want. It can even contain our new logo (the circular one), but, in those cases, the design will have to be approved by Ferrari in advance. So far, this procedure has not proven to be a problem.

We weren't forced into an agreement. We operated from a position of strength. Both of us benefited from this agreement and both will for a long time to come. We were also able to work out some areas of friction that have arisen between us over the years.

Sorry to have taken a while to get back to you, but I was at the beginning of a 25 hour flight sequence when I got TexasMike's note and email was impossible. I am now half way around the world, but have the benefit of some semblance of a night's sleep following the flights.

Thanks for having me involved in the discussion and please continue to have a great Holiday Season.

Al

 

Hi Jeff,

I do remember your email and thought I had someone set to follow up with you. Apparently, that did not occur - sorry.

Lets chat by phone about this after I am back in country (about a week from now). We can talk through the situation and discuss a plan for addressing it. Please re-email me and give me a contact phone; I'll call you.

Until then, and as general input for all. FCA National, as a matter of policy, does not get involved in regional/chapter/local affairs; these things need to be worked out locally. The only exceptions to this are situations of an unusual and/or extreme nature.

I look forward to our chat.

Al

 

Citation please.
This is contrary to everything previously believed.

 

Al,

I happily look forward to talking. A PM with all my contact info will be sent momentarily.

Jeff

 

Al, thank you for responding. My family has had the pleasure of being friends w/ Dick Merritt for nearly 50 years, and we have heard him speak many times of the very short 1964 letter from Ferrari that granted the license to the FCA in its infancy. I think Dick still has it.

Intellectual property is one issue, certainly, but what about Ferrari corporate control over Club activities? Will there be any and if so, how much? I think one fear is that there could eventually be a requirement that cars participating in FCA events would have to be classiche certified. Any truth to that?

thanks,
Bryan Phillips

 

This is a lot of fuss about a very simple intellectual property manner.
If there was a Coca-Cola fan club or a Gucci users club you can be sure that those companies would move swiftly to exert control over their intellectual property.

It has nothing to do with the beneficial intent of the club, but the implicit permission for outsiders to use the company's property, which would in turn create a situation where others, with less beneficial interest would be able to freely use the trademark. By establishing a contractual basis for the trademark use, the company protects itself from others wishing to use its trademark without the explicit approval of the trademark owner.

Ferrari is one of the world's most recognized brands, and became that way by the company's marketing, advertising, racing and trade practices. To allow others to use it without payment would be criminal on the part of the company from its shareholders' point of view.

 

Speaking as a Quebec chapter director, this issue with the use of the logo and so on, is moot to me.

- It does not keep me from organizing events.
- It does to keep me from getting together with my fellow owners.
- It does not keep me from the enjoyment of belonging to the Ferrari community.

If anything, our chapter has benefited from a wonderful complicity/duplicity with the local dealer. They've sponsored our charity drives, organized soirées, let us use their facilities for our events..and so on. FNA has never meddled (in Quebec) at the grass roots level; which in the end is what counts.

 

I apologize, I believe I said it backwards as I was half asleep when I wrote it.

I believe profits from sales of cars and merchandise help fund their F1 project.

 

It DO make a difference. Don't it?

Too bad, you really had my interest.

 

Are you sure about this? I read the entire thread on the similar Ferrari SpA/FCAustralia "deal" that was argued over in the Australia section, and it certainly appeared that while IP was part of the debate, factory control/influence over club events and participation was part of the deal and the angst.

If the SpA/FCAmerica deal is strictly concerning IP, then that's great.

 

I too would like to know the answer to that question.

 

Al makes them out to be almost trivial, but isn't the club giving up a lot?
What does the club get - a full 10% at the dealer, nothing more nothing less ...unless dealers raise rates across the board by 10%

I think the FCA has conceded quite a bit

1) Not forced into anything?
Why supercede an agreement that has been great for the last 47 years?
"Since 1964 we have had a license from Ferrari to use our now historic logo. Our new agreement, undertaken at Ferrari's request, replaces that license."

2) Why "SEAL" the agreement?
If it is so great why not let the membership view it? Is it somethhing to be sensitive about or does it show how Ferrari truly did strong arm the FCA?

3) Not forced into anything?
FCA can not use "a prancing horse, nose badge, fender shield, our old [FCA] logo"
Seems like a contradiction or being forced to change the way FCA represents themselves

4) Not forced into anything?
Perhaps you don't consider a letter from Ferrari's lawyers changing the way the FCA represents itself as being forced but it sure is "forceful".

 

I believe that if the "deal" to use the brand also contains elements of control over how the brand is used at events etc, then that is something between the licensor and licensee.

There is nothing stopping a group of people acting concert to do things they find mutually good, from doing so without using the Ferrari logo.
There is a group in Phoenix that gathers frequently under the moniker Scuderia Southwest and does exactly what they used to do as the local chapter of the FCA. Their reasons for breaking away had more to do with others in the club, rather than Ferrari itself, but it works, and now includes car fans of all marques.
When a brand owner becomes too intrusive it is easy to eliminate the brand from the activities without sacrificing any of the essence of the activities.

Ferraris are wonderful cars and the ethos that surrounds the brand is intoxicating, but it's honestly not that big a deal that I would pay additional fees to the car manufacturer who already sold me a car.

 

I'd like to thank you Al for coming here and responding. While I may not understand or agree with the details being kept under wraps you can surely understand how it has lead to all the speculation and rumors.

It also pretty much confirms my hunch that there were more issues and "resolutions" involved in the agreement that the regional board members were not allowed to discuss. That seems to put a huge burden on them to bear the brunt of the "discussions" with the members.

I don't know, I guess time will tell in the end. I also guess the only way any of us will ever be privy to the details of the agreement is to be elected to a board position which, in my opinion, is unfortunate.

John

 

You can register and protect figurative marks as well as word marks. With word marks it's the word, irrespective of font or figurative elements, which is protected.

See also: http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/basics/index.jsp "standard character format".

 

The new logo looks fine, IMHO and helps with the worldwide unification of the brand. The club (certainly for me, here in North Carolina), is about friends and good times.
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Now I'm confused.
Did not a previous poster just say that the "nose badge" cannot be used?
The publications shown have a "Nose badge" on each one.

 

These publications are the current issues from GB and USA, with current sanctioned logos. Similar publications around Europe and Asia seem to have the same thematic logo.

The club cannot produce and sell or give away regalia with other representations of the trademark. So, a plain old nose emblem (without the FCA circular frame) or long "F" script cannot be used. The official sanctioned logo, as shown above, is acceptable based on my current understanding of the Agreement.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Like I said.... I guess time will tell.

 

Too bad that Ferrari does not recognize the need for enthusiast support to continue their prominent brand. Lawyers and threats of lawsuits are a real indicator of the brand straying from what was once a great organization devoted to winning and engineering perfection. Now it is about squeezing the most from the people who continue to carry the flag for the same organization.

The more I read about the politics and close-minded exclusivity of the various Ferrari clubs, the more I would hesitate to rejoin in the future. No to get too political, but it is like many religious organizations that lose the direction of their founders once they pass.

Sad to say, but Ferrari continues to stray from its roots by the corporate drives of the current company representatives.


BT