Steel Brake Conversion- 430 Challenge

I'm glad that this thread was started. In Europe, we have been on these products from the introduction of carbon ceramics on Challenge cars when competing outside the Challenge series, but here at Taurino Racing, we introduced this steel brake conversion kit about two years ago in the US. From then til now, we have sold about 20 brake kits to various clients within the US and abroad. There is a perception with the Challenge owners that when fitting these kits, there would be a loss of performance. Here at Taurino Racing, we have done all tests to assure that the steel brakes are comparable to the carbon ceramics, however, the downfall is that you carry a little more weight in the car, but also a little more weight in your wallet! We're trying to reduce costs so that we can see more Challenge cars out there participating in club and track events. We welcome all opinions from 430 Challenge cars that are running on steel brakes. Please share your thoughts to inform other Challenge owners!

More information can be obtained by contacting Pete @ Universal Autosports or Taurino Racing.

 

How do these compare to F430 GT2 Brakes?

 

Pete- I have been trying to convince Mov'It to produce their CER ceramic rotors and matching pads to fit the Brembo calipers for the Ferrari Challenge and street cars and replace the CCM rotors and pads, which, as you noted, have not proven to be notably long lived. The CER rotors and pads have proven to be very long lasting and have all the lightweight and other advantages of ceramic brakes. They already make replacements for the PCCB rotors and pads. Testing has been done on Porsches and Ferraris, but only the Porsche has used the Brembo calipers. Results have been very impressive.

You might contact Mov'It USA and see if you two can strike a deal for a test set to see if there is a broader market.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Taurino Racing is a sponsor to the 2011 FCRA series and we have already negotiated brakes for the series .Every participant attending a minimal of 3 events will be receiving sponsored brake pads (Front and rear ) for any challenge car.
We have made our calculations and steel is the most cost effective way still .Most cars are already on them ,and its going to complicate things when it comes to free sponsored pads that you will receive at the track.

 

Our brakes are similar but when developing them we had to take into consideration the Challenge abs function .Therefore the rotor sizes and pad compound have been chosen to match the Challenge brake system. We wanted a bolt on system for the existing electronics, so the vehicle itself did not have to undergo any changes. The GT cars have done away with the stock system.
Therefore their is a equal correct brake bite force between the front and rear .That way they create the correct formula for the challenge car.

 

Andrea- Understand, but your calculations are based on CCM brakes, not CER brakes. Might be worth a look for the future.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Movit CER brake pad & rotor wear data

I am collecting wear data on Movit CER (carbon ceramic) brakes for the Manufacturer (Movit). Here's an excerpt I thought may be of interest on this thread:

"I finally had to change the first set of front Sport pads on the CER rotors. Here’s the data:

New pad thickness = 10mm

Use = 19 track days; 2644.8 miles
(Texas World Speedway, 2.9 miles, average = 4x 24-minute track sessions per day, 12 laps per session, 139.2 miles per day)

Thickness remaining on worn Sport pads:
Rear
Right Rear Inner = 7-8mm*
Right Rear Outer = 8-8.5mm*
Left Rear Inner = 8mm
Left Rear Outer = 8-9mm*

Front
Right Front Inner = 5-6mm*
Right Front Outer = 5-6mm*
Left Front Inner = 5-6mm*
Left Front Outer = 6-7mm*

*pads were tapered at leading edge

No measurable wear on rotors.
I replaced the front pads. I anticipate another 2500 miles of track use from the rear pads. Front Sport pad wear has been significantly better than PCCB pad, which averaged 6 track days per set "

CER rotors are 350mm x 34mm front; 350mm x 28mm rear. Car is 3500 pounds (Porsche 996 Turbo, full wet w/driver). CER rotors are made from same carbon-ceramic material as Ferrari and Porsche PCCB rotors; Panox from Carbon SGL in Germany. But the construction method is different; hence the better wear characteristics.

 

Do you have an idea of how much a complete kit costs

 

Andrea- They do not make one yet. Here is the US distributor's information and you can ask him about it.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Tom Frederico Enterprises
MovItBrakesUSA.com
MovIt.DE
FredericoPerformance.com
Poway, CA 92064
[email protected]
TFEnt.com
tel: 858.883.2655
fax: 206.337.0875

 

Andrea, can these be fitted to 2009 Scuderia's as well?

 

No these brakes at the moment have being developed for the Challenge only .
the brakes on the scuderia is a little different .we had to space the caliper and modify a few things to make them fit

 

Larry- If the 430 Challenge used the same size rotors as the F430 street car, they are smaller than Scuderia brakes. Scud rotors are 396 mm F and 360 mm R, while the F430 CCMs are 380 mm F and 350 mm R.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I have been running these for about a year now (30 days on track ... from Sebring to Watkins Glen). The feel is the same as CCR.... and trust me if your concerned about the weight, take the money you saved and join Weight Watchers!

 

Assume you mean steel rotors? Unsprung mass and rotating mass are not the same as belly fat. Weight of 330 mm steel 575M rotor 22.2 lbs. Weight of 396 mm Mov'It rotor 15.8 lbs.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

True and yet still amusing.

 

My 430 Challenge has the steel rotors since a year now. Also I changed the calipers so I could have choice in pads. This is my 2nd challenge car & I can tell you there is no difference. In fact in Europe the majority of the owners of these cars run on steel unless it's a Challenge series race, then they swap. Also it's important to note the the computer knows the difference between the carbon & the steel. 2 of my friends have made this change with no regrets!!

Linda Cook
Eagles Canyon Raceway

 

Linda- Which computer is this? There is a CCM program in the Motronic ECU that can be turned on or off. Is that the one to which you are referring?

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Andrea Taurino would be in a better position to give you specifics as he and his Chief Mechanic Johan flew to Texas to do the job. Myself and two of my racing buddies in Tx who have 430 Challenge cars have done this & love it..

 

Taz, the challenge diagnosi allows for the choice of ccm or steel. It must be done with the challenge software. The issue is, the ecu remembers the last brake wear numbers and reverts back to that when you go back to ccm.....even if they are new. If you never plan to go back to ccm than its a non issue.

 

DB- Thanks. No way to do a reset, I guess.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I'm sure the technology has improved, but about 10-15 years ago in F1, they said steel and carbon brakes offered the same stopping performance (once at operating temps). The main difference to the switch to carbon was improved handling (unsprung weight reduction). Maybe the same applies for these new CC brakes as F1 brakes are still different than their road counterparts.