WSJ: How A 1965 Ferrari Stacks Up Today (Video)

http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2010/12/23/road-test-how-a-1965-ferrari-stacks-up-today-video/?mod=rss_WSJBlog&mod=WSJ_Autos_Driversseat

 

Love those short nose 275's...

 

The 275 GTB will never go out of style. Not a bad angle anywhere. The last real Ferrari.

 

OK, now I wouldn't go *that* far...but yes, to me it's the essence of what "Ferrari" means.

 

I think Welsh would have had the same to say about the Daytona. I guess we could argue endlessly about when Ferrari lost the script.

Great video, btw.

 

It's a matter of opinion as to where the real road Ferrari ends. But, one thing is for sure that the road car becomes less Ferrari as the years advance. These are two different early 50's road cars. See the filler cap, the spare hold down, the brake air scoop.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

thats one pretty boot on the lhs,pure style.

 

Mr. Welsh appears to be a complete Wanker.

Did I just say WANKER?

Pardon me,... I meant to say,...Mr Welsh is a glorified Tosser!

 

At the risk of agitating the mob, what we are admiring here is product of a coachbuilder, not the Ferrari design or production shop. While its Colombo engine....that work of sublime beauty and function.... is all his. M

 

Please allow me to respectfully disagree... I (we?) admire the "ensemble", or the "package". The coachbuilder's work is only the most visible part of the divine formula: PF design + Colombo V12 + SWB independent chassis + Enzo inspiration.

 

Julio My heart admires the entire package! But my head reminds me Enzo's passions where elsewhere! One of the coach houses" great designers told me once he never met Himself, even when one of his designs sold a huge run for Ferrari. In fact whether the product of Brownian Motion or single leader's purposeful focus those early years are extrodinary.

 

This piece brings up what we all know in our hearts.

While we can appreciate the timeless beauty of the GTB, the fact remains it represents technology that is now over 40 years old. Driveability and reliability that we take for granted today simply wasn't there 40 years ago. The skinny tires and small displacement results in performance that, quite frankly, is pretty mundane compared to more modern cars. It is best kept for sunny days and country drives because time marches on and cars are so much better today than they were in late 60's.

Lovely antique, but this generation of cars is fast becoming an antique none the less. They will remain valuable as antiques, just as Type 35 Bugatti is, but the driving experience is clearly becoming dated. I don't have an urge to buy a pre-war car, and the 60's was a high point in terms of cars that I would collect and desire, but the times they are a changing.

 

I thought this was a good read from Jamie Kitman:

http://www.gq.com/cars-gear/cars/201008/slow-car-movement-jamie-lincoln-kitman-enthusiast-collector

"Overfilled and strangely undernourished" sums it up beautifully.

As someone who doesn't own a 275 GTB, I would ignore a long line of modern Ferraris to drive one. All of the modern stuff is great in its own way, but it's all much of the same. E.g., Automobile magazine compared the Porsche GT2 and Ferrari 599 GTO, and narrowly took the slightly faster Porsche -- but utimately both were better cars than anyone would ever need on the street.

 

That was a good read, to whit:

I'll be on an old-fashioned road, in an old-fashioned car, a proper car, a slow car, driving my ass off.

Read More http://www.gq.com/cars-gear/cars/201008/slow-car-movement-jamie-lincoln-kitman-enthusiast-collector#ixzz19MMFumRS

I didn't think the video was worth much. 40 year old GTB not like his Camry? Too bad. I'm not sure he'd like the 599 either.

It's true, 40 year old cars lack creature comforts, but I have found that they still kick a@@ when it's time to DRIVE.

I'm a little retro anyway. After fuel injection, the only thing I really like about current cars is heated seats in the winter ;-)

 

Not date, it is being preserved by the virtue of these antiques. But then again, I am dated. Getting out of my car and getting behind the wheel of today's supercar I'd probably think I am a flee catching a ride on the backside of a pig.

john

 

I couldn't disagree more. I don't drive to be the fastest from point A to point B. I drive for the visceral feel. If I understand your analogy, there should be no one racing sailboats or horses any more: technology has left them behind. I would love a prewar car in addition to those I own from the 60's and up, just for the difference in feel, the same way I prefer reading a classic to seeing the movie. Yes it is technologically inferior, but so much more enjoyable.

George

 

You are misunderstanding. Racing sailboats have progressed in their technology, you wouldn't even be a backmarker at a regatta without modern sails and a modern design hull. Technology has improved boats to the point where they are much faster than they were 20 years ago. A sailboat uses a specific technology and tries to get the most out of that propulsion method, and technolgy has improved them. And you can love and enjoy breeding and training animals and the challenge it represents, even though a motorcycle is a lot faster than a horse.

What made these cars great in their time is that they were fast even though they gave up some creature comforts to get to that level of performance. A GTB isn't any faster getting to 60 than a present day VW GTI. Don't get me wrong, I'd take a GTB over VW any day in the week, and so would a lot of other people, which is why they are worth so much, but we are adoring these cars because of what they were and not what they are. We love the bodywork, but the mechanicals are becoming dated, to the point where they are begining to lose their relevance, and technology is passing them by. If you had new car today with slow heavy steering everybody would pan it as being crude.

I had a chance to drive a BMW 2002 Tii the other day, (one of the classics that Kitman was referring to) and it drove just like the 2002 I had in the 70's... The steering was slow, the skinny tires didn't have much grip and it wasn't very quick, (mine had a 200 hp TI/SA engine and was a lot quicker). My sons GTI is as much or more fun to drive than the TII, and it's a much better car. We love these old cars, but compared to what we can buy today, they are fast becoming antiques that we enjoy for reasons other than their performance.

 

Solofast,

One of the joys of the world we live in is variety, including people's points of view. What you consider slow and uncomfortable I consider charming and visceral. Neither of us is wrong, it is simply a matter of taste.

That said, there is a directness present in my old Ferrari that, in my opinion, is lost in modern cars. I believe that this may be percieved as crudeness to some but to me it is not. It provides me with an increased sensory experience for a given speed as compared to modern performance cars. I have not yet driven a modern car where technology has not refined some of this directness away (I suspect the Ariel Atom may be the best of both but I have not yet driven one...).

Regards,

Art S.

 

Art,

I couldn't agree more. It is unfortunate that most cars with power steering tend to dilute the driving experience and to some extent, it is like a sound system, you can try to add base or trebble, but "you can't add clarity" to the sound. Older cars have that directness and it has been refined out of most newer cars. In a similar sense, you won't hear the hiss at low speed, or the moan of a set of Webers when the you hit their sweet spot and that too is unfortunate.

 

I wonder why we can't seem to find this level of eloquence and emotion in clips like the WSJ's. Listening to and watching the reporter in the piece made me think of an accountant or a 'talking head' journalist (chosen for appearance and polite, un-nuanced delivery of the news) rather than an enthusiast... like the folks who contribute to this thread

 

Maybe it's more a change in perspective. Today we worship 0-60. Back in the 275 GTB era, I suspect that buyers who could afford it appreciated the exclusivity and artistry of the car as much as its performance parameters. There's nothing you can buy today that comes close to the taste, style, bespoke construction, and absolute Italian-ness of a 275 GTB. It's all a big digital, plastic mess now, processed food and synthesized music. Easy to eat, easy to listen to.

I think the WSJ writer is typical of the modern driver, accustomed to steering and shifting with a pinky while checking voicemail and sipping something in a Starbuck's cup.

I've yet to drive a 275 GTB (can't afford one and I only know one owner locally), and most of my vintage/old car experience is in Porsches. Beyond a scrap of doubt, the 356 is more charismatic and fun than the smoothed out 996, and there's no amount of power you can add that changes the equation. It's a pure machine, built by hand, in an era where people took the time to look at and enjoy things. It doesn't go, stop or corner as well as a new VW GTI, but it's a unique driving experience. If you compare an old Speedster to a Boxster, the Boxster is better in every way that you can measure. But it will never be a car that really stands out as rare or timeless.

(Another good read, btw, is the intro in the new edition of Excellence, the Porsche magazine, in which the editor basically says the 911 has lost its way. Not available online, sorry.)

 

+1 for Bullfighter ! Absolutely nothing wrong with hightech modern cars. They are wonderful machines. It's just that ...they are not my cup of tea. w/ smiles Jimmy

 

Victory by Design video with a bit more passion for the marque.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/victory-by-design-ferrari-275-gtb_184882.htm

 

Exactly the show/host I had in mind when I made my post above.

 

I agree. However, in the 1960s, people were saying exactly the same thing about the 275, in comparison with the Ferraris of the 1950s. So it really doesn't change...