The article about Maserati Ghibli I

This is interesting since I just completed a Ghibli article, although the focus is different.

There is a lot of misinformation about the Ghibli. I get requests from people looking for a Ghibli and usually one of the first things they will say is "it needs to be an SS". When quizzed as to the reason, it generally boils down to "I was told this is the only one to get".

In my article I explain many of production differences, and which ones I prefer. I do not expect everyone to agree with me; but here it goes.

For example, I prefer a 4.7 liter engine with the late style heads (ex: 1970) over the 4.9 liter engine. The power difference is negligible, the 4.7 revs a little better, but more importantly the 4.9 has the nasty tendency of developing cracks on the crankshaft while it is very rare on the 4.7.

The article is posted on my website ... this is the link:

http://thecarnut.com/Manuals/Ghibli_Features_Options.pdf

As always, comments welcomed.

Ivan

 

Great read Ivan.....my '69 is entirely apart at the moment but I think it has most of the items on your "ideal" list, less the power steering. I'll be doing a comparison first thing tomorrow.

My motor is sitting on a pallet at the moment....a few people have looked at but no one is sure if its a 4.7 or 4.9. With your description I think is a later 4.7 since there one t-stat and one set of spark plug holes. Maybe I'll PM you some photos for your opinion.

Thanks

 

Ivan, thanx for the great article and pdf on the Ghibli. I always appreciate your generosity in sharing info and assistance. steve meltzer 115.616

 

Excellant overview Ivan.
4.7 vs 4.9 As an investment the 4.9 SS will always be in higher demand thus commanding a premium price.
It always amazes me what 2 tenths of a liter and a couple pieces of script will do.
The reality is that both cars are essentially the same.
The car in the most original condition and with the most unique color combination will always get my attention first.
My favorite continues to be that lime green with black leather, or black with red leather with 42mm 3 ear KO wire wheels.
Ciao,
FGM

 

Hello Ivan,

Great article! I noticed the early Smiths tach had the redline at 5000 rpm and the Veglia up to 5500 rpm. That is interesting, but I've also read period articles that the real redline was 6000 rpm.

Also, Ivan, how does one know if they have a 4.7 or 4.9 l engine in their pre-SS Ghibli? Is there any casting or marking, or will we just never know without opening up the engine?

Another question I have is why fifth gear is so close to 4th? There is just a slight change in rpms from 4th to 5th, like ~1000 rpm, which I find odd......they are so close! Others I've spoken with have said the same, yet others different things. I think it would be great if we had a section on the various transmission types/ratios and diff ratios. The owner's manual mentions different options, but who knows if that is accurate or comprehensive given that period Italian manuals were so full of errors/omissions!

 

To determine which motor you have, simply look at the engine number, located on top of the front of the engine, near the top of the water pump. One "S" followed by a number indicates it is a 4.7. Two "SS" make it a 4.9. This number is also stamped on the oil pan and I believe down around the motor mounts. This number has nothing to do with the chassis number. They are two different numbers.
This is all from a fading memory so bear with me.
Ciao,
FGM

 

Thanks, I found the S. But were they doing the S and SS before the SS designation in 1970? Or, are pre-SS model cars, like a '68, with the 4.9 labeled SS? Thanks, Victor

 

Victor,
Yes, all Ghibli dry sump engines were designated with an S or a SS followed by a number.
Remember this is the engine number and has nothing to do with the chassis number.
I hope this helps.
Ciao,
FGM

 

Victor,

That is a valid question. While Frank is correct that 4.7 liter engines were numbered with an "S" and 4.9 with an "SS", I do not know if the early Ghibli 5000 engines were numbered the same way. I suspect they were but it would be good to verify this with a known early "stealth" 4.9 liter engine.

Ivan

 

The Ghibli SS owner's manual (page 10) rates the maximum power of the 4.7 liter engine at 6000 rpm and that of the 4.9 liter at 5500 rpm. I assume that means those rpms are the red line. It seems to confirm the 4.7 revs a little higher than the 4.9.

Ivan

 

I posted about Ghiblis for sale on my blog recently.

http://***********************/2010/12/maserati-ghibli-for-sale.html

 

Here we can see attached a fax from the Factory signed by Sig. Cozza showing information on the second or third Ghibli Spyder produced and as you can see it carries engine number ASS1649. This takes us back to May 1969.
It is my opinion that all 4.9's had the SS designation in the engine number, and all 4.7's had only 1 S.
I would be interested in knowing who has the earliest example of a Ghibli equipped with the 4.9 engine at the Factory.
Ciao,
FGM
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I think that fax doesn't completely solve the mystery because May 1969 construction could be for model year 1970, and the fax also designated the model as a Ghibli SS, and we know that Ghibli SS models came with the 4.9, but I really want to find a non-SS Ghibli with a 4.9 to see what the engine assembly stampings are!
Thanks for the information, Victor

 

Victor,
What are you trying to say?
If you found "a non-SS Ghibli with a 4.9" it would BE a Ghibli SS, provided it has matching chassis numbers on the body and engine.

What I'm saying is if the engine has two S's then it IS a Ghibli SS, provided it has matching chassis numbers on the body and engine.
A non SS Ghibli with a 4.9 engine IS a Ghibli SS.

Perhaps you are thinking "Ghibli SS script" which anybody can purchase and put on the rear of the car and the glove box.
So in this case a Ghibli with SS script and a one S engine number IS NOT a Ghibli SS.
Are we getting close to a clarification?
Ciao,
FGM

 

Ivan:

Very nice article, very helpful. Slightly off OP's topic, but how many Ghibli's were built having the your stated preferences in the article you wrote (I'd like to get one with Power Steering at some point and I thought only SS's came that way)? How much $$ to convert to PS (roughly, parts & hours of labor)?

Thanks.

 

You are thinking under the assumption that Maserati (also Ferrari & Lamborghini for that matter) built cars like mass market manufacturers with model year change overs. They didn't.

Many of the changes were basically running production evolutions. The model year designations were done more to comply or circumvent a governmental law than anything else.

Just look at the Bora, The last car #1048 is designated a 1977. It wasn't built until Oct. 1978 a time when other car companies would have been building the 1979 model year cars.

Joe

 

Sorry but now I'm getting more confused. Please put up with my naivety....I thought the SS model started from MY1970 until the end of production. My understanding is that there was no such thing as a model designated as a 'SS', say in 1967 or 1968. But we know that there were 4.9 liter motors put into Ghiblis in those early years. And you just wrote that every model with a 4.9 was an SS, but what about in 1968? This all started by wondering how to tell if a pre-1970 (before there was such thing as a model designated SS) had a 4.7 or 4.9.

 

Just to add to the confusion , my Ghibli has serial # 115/49/2498 and the engine is labeled with the SS #3598 as Frank suggest, but the car which is completely original does not have any badging that says SS either on the back or the dash. Both just say Ghibli

 

So you don't have the S in the VIN nor the original badging, so it isn't an SS. What year is your car? And does it have power steering?

 

Alberto,

Power steering was available as an option from early in the Ghibli production, yet you see it mostly in cars built in 1970 and later. It was not exclusively an SS option as I have seen quite a few 4.7 Ghibli with power steering. Converting to PS is not trivial but can be done by a skilled home mechanic. The biggest challenge is locating all the parts. I have not personally done it but, judging from what needs to be done, I would allocate 20 hours for the conversion. Price of parts is like lobsters ... "market price"

Not sure if there was a Ghibli build with ALL the features I consider desirable. As I said in the article, it comes down to compromises.

Ivan

 

Gene,
Not surprising as the SS designation and badging was a total hit and miss item.
A total marketing idea made popular by hot rod drag strip guys in the early 1960's with their Super Stock designation and Chevrolet with their Impala SS. The SS badging began in the early 30's with such makes as Jaguar and others.
Maserati Ghibli SS badging was put on one car, but not the other, hence your car with a very late serial number has none.
Doesn't matter because as we all know now a car with a 4.9 IS an SS by virtue of the engine size and that AOSS number on the engine.
If you want to be really confused the 4.9 cars were first known internally as the Ghibli 5 liter, much like they did with the 5000 GT, which was actually a 4.9 liter car. They rounded it up to "the 5 liter"
If you look in the Ghibli 4.9 Use and Maintenance Manual you will note they call it the 5000.
Go to http://www.thecarnut.com/Manuals/MUM_Am115Am115-49Ghibli.pdf where Ivan has it posted on his web site and check it out.
Ciao,
FGM

 

Oops posted this on the wrong thread.
Ciao,
FGM
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

So you don't have the S in the VIN nor the original badging, so it isn't an SS. What year is your car? And does it have power steering?

My car is a 1972 DOM is 31/5/1972 and it does have power steering.
I do have a friend that has installed power steering on an early Ghibli. Ivan's estimate of 20 hours is conservative. I would estimate it took him closer to 50 hours