It will hold it's value better than a 430. I bought my CS because I love them. My next car I add will be a Scud.
That's why a 360CS is my next purchase, Rossa Corsa with the stripe please! It's fairly 'rare', the sound is absolutely incredible in a tunnel, love the 'rawness' of it in a modern car, love the carbon interior, titanium suspension springs.... Regarding depreciation, I think it will be a much shallower slope than most other modern F-cars (which I think is pretty much agreed here). Personally, I don't have the stomach to lose $70k depreciation on a newer car. If 'my' CS loses $20k before I sell it for my F40 D ) I'm ok with that.
Then I'm not sure what we were arguing about because on this it appears we agree. If you read my post I state that whatever the future brings in CS prices, it will always be influenced by the going market price of the 360 and the Scud -- not the F430 itself.
We're arguing because you said this...... And then said this..... We're not arguing. I love talking cars as do most folks here. That's why we're on a forum. Wouldn't be much fun if we all agreed.
Endless obsessing over this topic. Drive them both and pick the one that appeals the most to you. I have had many Ferraris over the last 40 years and currently have a CS as well as a 458. The CS may not be the fastest car but it is always engaging and lots of fun. That is what these cars are about - the driving experience. Drive them both and get what you like. Resale will be limited either way. Modern Ferraris are not an investment unless they are very rare and very desirable.
Grab your lambo and I'll grab my 430 spider and see how it stacks up performance wise. I won't disagree the NEW Porsche TT's aren't fantastic but they are different beasts as well. I don't care about straight line speed and have raced Porsches for many years and would still choose a 430 over any TT Porsche made on the track. Ask me about a GT3 and my answer will be different. Jason only 365 CS's came to the US and over 2k Scuds did. There is almost 30-40 CS's on the market at all times (10%) while there are only about 40-50 Scuds in the same market. Much smaller percentage. 200 Scuds would have to be for sale to be close to the CS's for sale. Yes you can argue a chunk of the CS's are "storied cars" but come on these are 6-7 year old cars. They are going to have problems. Most scuds this past 1 1/2 years have lost about 75k in value. While CS's lost almost the same. 1 1/2 years ago CS's were 200k and now they are 140k. Top cars maybe 150k (selling not asking) They've both last basically 25% in value. Seems the Scud has done pretty well with 2k cars in the country. Ford GT's are holding incredible value and over 4000 of them were built with 3000 cars in the US. That's not low production by any stretch. They have a different following. American's suck them up and many Americans love Ford. I'm confused why the Scud is even in this discussion because the OP wanted to know about 430 vs CS but there is no way CS's will ever be worth more than Scuds. It's just not going to happen. Iconic following or not it comes down to which car is better. The scud is by 100 times. Not even a contest. To the OP the only decision you need to make is which car speaks the loudest to you. Don't worry about performance because you won't drive either close to their limits. The 430 will be the better car for most things. They are faster. They are quicker. They are more comfortable. Storage the same. Nights out with the wife 430. Quick burst through the mountains with your buddies, toss up. Weekend trips with the wife 430. Weekend trips to the track toss up.
I bought my CS 6 weeks ago and the OP doesn't have one yet. I don't really care how much either car lost in value up till now. Let's take today as the start date. If you bought one TODAY. In 2010 there were 30-40 CS's on the market. Not anymore. There are still 30-40 SCuds on the market. CS is 6-7 years old. Yes, that makes it even harder to find a good one. 3000 Ford GT's is a lot less than 25,000 F430's. Seems you set out to disagree with me with your post but then you agreed with me on almost every point. Did you read my posts in this thread?
Congratulations on your CS purchase! It is a fantastic car. And indeed it will depreciate less than most other Ferraris of similar vintage. But it will depreciate, and more so if you put some miles on it. But don't let your worries about depreciation get in the way of driving and enjoying the car. Miles = Smiles.
I'm driving her. She has 11,500 now. Not a "low mileage" car by Ferrari standards but she looks brand new to me. Guy at the gas station asked if it was a new 2011. I said YES
Oh... so you LIE, eh??? In all seriousness, good for you. Enjoy it because that's what it was built for... your enjoyment!
I don't think I agreed with you. You also compared Ford GT's to 250GTO's (40-60 left depending on who you ask) and F40's (I have no clue on qty) when I told you 4000 were made. Very large difference on low production. CS's are lower production at 1400 or so but that's no small amount either. Still 30 CS's on the market TODAY. So still almost 10% of CS's on the market for sale. If you are wrong and 50 Scuds (not 30-40) are for sale that is 2 1/2% of the Scuds in the Country for sale. So a lot less Scuds for sale percentage wise. I think they are holding pretty good value considering. 430's (not Scuds) will lose more value because supply and demand comes into play. I agree as they get older more will hit the market which will drive their pricing down. CS's will still lose some value. They will never be near scud pricing. Scuds are 50% more now and will continue to hold this difference for a very long time. They are a much better car. CS's are selling for roughly 40% off MSRP from 2004 and while mass produced Scuds are still selling about 25-30% off of MSRP. Yes every car took a bath this year. I agree with you on that. I also agree that a 430 will lose a little more value than CS's over the next 5 years but just a little. They are a better car all the way around and only 365 people in the country like them more than 430's. The majority of buyers will pick a 430 over the CS 99 of 100 days. I still would tell the OP to buy a 430 because I believe it fits his use way better. The handful of us that like the CS's are just that a handful. Basically 20 of us chatting about CS's.
Hope you do better than the previous owners/polishers (who drove <2K miles/year) and make the mileage closer to 21,500 than 11,500 a year from now. Happy motoring!
I compared the other cars because BDelp said that low production numbers had little to do with value. He also said that performance was a big factor in value. I disagreed and asked why the 250GTO was so expensive then. So, again, I don't think you read the thread. There's more to what I said than you are commenting on. There's one CS on Ebay. 8 Others on AOL Cars. I've never seen this few CS's for sale. Yes, I have a running list of CS's for sale and have for the last year+. I do not include the cars not advertised by the guy who says he "sell it for $1 million if someone offered it to him". That's 9 total that I can find. Most are crap. The rest are asking too much. Show me 30 cars. Good thing there are so many 430's. The vast majority of buyers on the planet would also pick a 911 over a Ferrari. Good thing there are a lot more of those too. I don't see how my CS less useful. Start from the idea that we are talking about a Ferrari. So, it's not like any of them are even remotely "practical". From a "use" standpoint, both have 2 seats. Both are loud and expensive to fix. Both don't like speed bumps. In fact, My CS seems to handle speed bumps much better than my Aston Martin. Not sure why but it does. Radio? Who cares? I drive mine to dinner with the GF. I drive mine to the gym. I drive mine to Costco. If I wanted a Daily Driver Ferrari I'd probably buy an older 430 and beat the hell out of it. Does the OP want a DD? I'm tired of buying sportscars that get lost in a sea of others. People not in the know think my car is a new 2011. People in the know say "wow, you don't see those very often". I like it. I agree with you that the OP should buy what he wants. 430's are everywhere in Atlanta. I just wanted something a little different.
Reading all these posts about the relative merits and potential future values of the 430 versus the 360 makes me smile. The posts often mention supply and demand, but there seems to be little understanding of one side of this equation. Everyone understands supply - how many did they make, how many still exist? But no one seem to understand what drives demand. For all but the most rare cars (think production numbers of 1 - 20) demand is not driven by supply - or lack thereof. They made millions of Mustangs, yet there is still a strong demand for them. Nor is demand driven by the last iota of improved performance. 10 years from now I doubt the difference in performance between a CS and a 430 will matter much to a potential buyer. Looking back on the history of Ferrari models, and those from similar marques, leads me to conclude that the one most important overriding factor controlling demand, and in turn the future value of a particular car, is its beauty. Why is a 246 Dino worth 5 times a 308, which is arguably a far superior car in virtually every definable category you might evaluate? (Why are either one worth ANYTHING when a Honda S2000 will blow them both away?) Beauty. Why is a 275 GTB worth 3 times a 330 GTC, when that are basically the same darn car? Beauty. Why is a Boxer worth more than a Testarossa? Beauty. Why is a DeTomaso Mangusta worth 3 Panteras (a car that solved at least some of the inherent problems in the Mangusta, its predecessor)? Beauty. Why is a Miura worth more than a Countach? Beauty. Why is a Camaro worth more than a Firebird? Beauty. So, I think the long term values of your CS versus 430 will be determed based upon which is the more beautiful car. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but over time a consenus of evaluation develops. I vote for the CS, in my eye it is the FAR more beautiful car.
I wish! I can find less than 20: 12 on car.com, a few more on Dupont, 1 on ebay, 8 on autotrader...and, of course, several of those are repeat adds...I haven't sorted through them but I think 17 or so is all I can find...
I hope not! What do you think of the one at Maser of Sacto and the one at Ferrari of Seattle? Any first hand or even solid heresay on these cars? [I've heard rumors about them but no one has said anything specific about what might be wrong with them and I'm in process trying to buy one...speculation is kinda meaningless and hopefully something a PPI can figure out one way or the other...but actual knowledge would be hugely appreciated!]
Agreed. But the most important point in these numbers is that my list, last April, did have between 30 and 40 advertised CS's on it. The only ones left are the crappy ones and even some of the crappy ones have sold (flag car).
I know they are for sale but I stopped caring about the history of specific cars once I bought mine. Search the serial number and see what comes up. IMHO, if there's a rumor, weather it's true or not, makes it a "storied stradale". That car will never escape that rumor because FChat exists. For this reason, if I ever wreck my CS or if it gets hit or if I have paintwork etc, I'll take pictures and post it here on FChat for everyone to see. Then there's no "rumor". "I love rumors! Facts can be so misleading, where rumors, true or false, are often revealing" - Col. Hans Landa
Thanks. Did that. All that came up is stockpro saying to get a PPI on it for sure in the CS market thread (pages 49/50). Otherwise, nothing. I'm getting a PPI on it today...
The CS in Seattle is as pristine as they come. If you walked up to it you wouldn't believe it has the miles it does. The previous owner was/is one of the most "ocd" owners anyone has ever met. He did this car justice. He loved it.....and loved driving it. Mechanically, its about as sound as you can get. Serviced all its life at FoS by one of the best Ferrari techs this side of the Mississippi.......my opinion of course.
Yup. Get a PPI. IMHO, getting a PPI from a body shop I think get's the best results. Mechanical crap the dealer will find can be fixed and does not hurt value. A wreck at some point will hurt value a lot. I say this because my F Dealer doesn't do body work at all. Nobody will care that you put a new clutch in. Everyone will care if there's a rumor of body panel damage.
