Hi all. Can I get a very rough estimate of how much it would cost to restore a 328 to very good condition. A solid driver, not platinum concourse condition. The one I saw has some dents and paint swirls, a slightly offset bumper, cracked lens. It clearly needs new hoses, probably a new clutch, belts, break pads and rotors, probably some suspension work and some general transmission work. The engine looks solid but I'm sure needs work. The interior is intact with no tears or major issues, but clearly is cracked and faded. Some button labels are faded. New tires. It has 46k miles. The car needs a major service, and then some. But it runs and looks decent overall. AC and heat seam to work ok. The carfax is clean but I think it's been in an accident with the slightly crooked bumper and mediocre re-paint job. It clearly wasn't loved the way it should have been. I am in no rush to get it perfect. This can be a long, slow labor of love. But I don't have the ability, nor the time, to do it myself. So I will have to hire someone to do it. I know I can get into a concourse quality 328 for mid 50's and a nice driver for mid 40's. At least, I think so. But a fixer upper should be in the mid 20's to low 30's depending on how much work it needs. Again, at least I think so. So I'm trying to decide if I should get in cheap and make it mine over time, or just save up and buy a clean car. But the #'s need to add up. If I buy a car for $28k and it needs $30k of work than it's not worth it. If I can make it really nice for $15k over 2-3 years, it's probably worth it. Thanks!
2 things. It is only original once so try and find one that has been taken care of. Also, it will cost you a lot more to fix one than find one that is in good to great shape. JMHO It took me 2 years to find a great 308QV but I found exactly what I was looking for and it was worth the wait.
fact of life; there's no cheap way around one of these cars unless you can do all the work competently yourself.
A tired 25k 328 cannot be a good 45k 328 for the 20k difference. I service and restore ferrari's so I know it can't be done. Be careful.
I'm not looking to necessarily save $$$. I just don't want to spend way more going the "project" route. I totally get the concept of 'you get what you pay for'. But what I am generally getting from you guys is that these $20-low$30k "project" cars WILL cost WAY more than a well cared for comparable car of equal mileage and condition once the "project" is done. And it still won't be truly 'as good' as the well cared for one. And certainly won't hold it's value as well. Ok. So what should I expect to spend for a solid driver? Are my initial $ #'s accurate?
I can give you a real world example, a customer bought a 25k 328 from the usa and it was a driver at best. It wasn't running on all cylinders, the paint job was average and the interior was tired. I think for 45-55k he could have bought a 328 that ran, was parked indoors and had a very good paint job. The "good" cars are usually complete with all the tools, books, spare tire and covers. These loose items cost thousands.
This is interesting for me because I'm on the other side of the deal. I have my 328 and I'm going to sell it. Mechanically, solid but needs work to make it a solid car. So I'm debating on the other side, put 5-7k into it or just sell it as is? All my issues are cosmetic (except for front shocks). It sounds like we're a match made in heaven, but I have a white 328 and either you love it or you don't.
As a general rule, if your goal is to own a nice example of any car like this, it is cheaper in the long run to buy the best one you can find, not to buy a car that has a lot of needs. I'd only suggest that you buy a cheap one if you plan on doing all the work yourself and if you are happy to drive it as-is, without fixing all of the cosmetic issues. And, it would help if you plan to keep it forever (and who really actually does that?) so that resale values aren't of a concern. JR
Yes. I'm partially restoring a 308. Even doing 100% of the work myself, there's no way I'm saving any money over buying one that was perfect already. Sure is fun though.
A $25,000 328 will need $40,000 to make it a good car. $50,000 will get you a great 328 and you can drive it instead of working on it. Why spend the extra $15,000 to spend all your nights and weekends at home?
Listen to Rock and Rifledriver. They are pros. The car you describe sounds like a parts car. You can't buy it cheap enough to come out, even counting your labor at zero. Look for a cared for car with higher miles and/or an off color for 30 something and you will be much better off. Dave
Let me second what Rifledriver said above. I purchased a 1986 328 six months after the previous owner completed a $40K restoration. Below are some of the details of the work done. Previous owner did not make out financially and I will forever have respect for the hit he took as I could not have bankrolled this amount of work. He restored the car to keep forever but hen decided to reach for a 360 in light of falling prices... Note that this did not include an engine or transmission rebuild. The car is mechanically great and looks great too. All of the below cost $40K. Restoration is not a cheap game. ALSO, in my opinion, keep in mind that even a 25 year old garage queen might need rubber bits (suspension, fuel lines etc..) replaced. I suggest driving an "original" car and then one with new suspension rubber... ENGINE Engine out & heads removed De-carbon valves, lap valve seats and replace valve stem seals Replace lower drive bearings and seals, replace rear main seal New cam sprocket bearings New Fuel Injectors New gaskets and seals for heads Polish intake and coolant runners Repaint cam covers red / timing covers black New A/C Idler belt pulley bearing New water pump pulley bearing New water pump Jet-Hot coating for headers New Fuel Lines (Verell) All new colant hoses and fuel filler & crossover lines Thermostat SUSPENSION Remove clean and re-paint A-arms New QA-1 shocks and springs. Verells eye-end adaptors used for shocks New bushings and ball joints INTERIOR New Carpet Remove interior (seats, doors, console) / strip and re-color New seals around doors and trunk OTHER Clean CV Joints and replace boots. New CV Joint to Drive axle New clutch / clutch cable and resurface flywheel New Shifter bushings Remove & repaint brake calipers New Stainless brake lines Rebuild steering rack New Plug wires and distributor caps New Hyper Flow Cats New X-Ost muffler Remove & re-paint fuel tanks Repaint fender liners Clean and re-paint A/C compressor coolant tank and oil cooler Clean and repaint underbelly of car and engine bay Repaint front bumper hood and fenders up to windshield New Goodyear Eagle F1 tires
I AM an idiot who went the bought a "Needs Car" route. "YES," I have put WAY MORE (many thousands of $$$$$) into it than I will ever get back. But I wanted to rescue a car with my own hands and keep it where it belongs, on the road. The satisfaction I get doing it is overwhelming!!!!! IF you are concerned about "money back" sometime down the line, DO NOT go this route.
What he said. 328s aren't yet worth restoring. There are still a lot of nice ones out there, and the parts prices probably outstrip any DIY savings in labor.
It is almost axiomatic that you will spend way more restoring a car than it is worth, when you total up the cost of purchasing and the cost of repairs and restoration vs. what the car is worth when you are done with it. And a corollary is that you can buy a car that someone else restored a lot cheaper than finding an old one in need of work and restoring it yourself. That said -- and take this from someone who has done this several times -- if you really enjoy working on the car, and your hobby is doing the work and spending the time in the garage, then the cost of restoration is not really an issue. I enjoy doing the work, and though I'm not a pro, I'm pretty good at it. I do get to enjoy driving the cars, but I get as big a rush from doing a project, getting it done and running the car when its finished. So, unless you are into doing work yourself and wanting a "project" to keep you busy, figure out how much you are willing to spend on a fixer-upper and add to that how much you are willing to spend to have the work done, and make that total your budget for a car with all of the work done. Chances are, if you are patient and look around, you will find a great car for less than you would have spent buying a mess and having the work done.
Did you do more than new leather, carpets and head-liner material? Sounds really expensive compared to what I paid to have mine done (about 6k).
New seats, console, and door panels from hide, new carpet, new pad, new seat belts, rear package deck -- essentially everything except the headliner and the dash is new.
I think the problem with these cars is that the parts are so damn expensive. Restoring a car cosmetically is one thing, as long as you get to drive it from time to time. Restoring the engine or transmission means the car is out of commission for months and months. Soon you will start to forget about the car and lose interest. Unless you can get the car dirt cheap, like less than 20k, then it's worth it. Ace
like everyone else said, not a good idea financially. i just did a comprehensive mechanical resto on my 78 308. parts prices were VERY expensive. i did it only because i wanted the car a specific way, and the key here: i am not selling it. so it was worth it to me; but definitely i would not have done it if i were planning to sell in a few years.
This is very true. When it was discovered that my car needed new heads, I decided to freshen-up the bottom end as well. That excursion cost me well over 10K and an entire driving season. All this for a car purchased for over 40k a year before hand.
