Is this a dumb comparison.....or not? I posted this topic in the 308/328/Mondial section, but thought I should also post it here for comments, I am particularly interested in feedback from 456 owners as I think I know what I'll be getting myself into with the T, but not so sure with the 456 For: Both Ferrari's, both 4 seater's, both very affordable Against: Older V Newer (T built from 89-93, 456 in 92-2003), one a V12 the other a V8, One mid engined the other front, In the US I think the T was only released as a convertible? I have only seen 1 discussion on this comparison (a Fchat thread from 2004) and would be interested in opinions from those who may have had the opportunity to compare both (drive or own).
I have never driven a Mondial, but I am one of its secret admirer....I love the coupe's line. I also have never driven the 456 but was a passenger in a sprint a couple of time. My F-car owning experience has been excluysively V8 and V12 2-seaters old and new... But I would like to add my opinion here... The T seems to be a great car with modern 348 engine (but that thing has a single-belt driven engine, right??? potential headache). And if you want to buy a car, it's best to buy one of the last due to development and revision. I know a guy in Thailand who own the T (with that strange half F1 half manual tranmissiong that predate the F1 in F355). And he puts over 100,000km on the clock with many painful and happy moment in equal measure. So, I suggest you prepare for the same. The 456 is a newer machine...probably easier to work on as it's a front engine. It is very comfortable with usable rear seats and a trunk. The 456 also grows more beautiful every second and I think it has one of the nicest butt in car world. The ride is very comfy, the engine is strong. And you will own on of the prettiest Ferrari around. If I were to chose one... 456 would be nice.
You're in luck because I happen to own both! I've got a 1989 Mondital t COUPE -- yes, coupe. It is a US-spec coupe and one of just 42 coupes manufactured for the United States. The coupes came in only in 1989. I also have a 2003 456M GT (6-speed). These two machines are quite different. I'll talk about the 456 first. The first thing I would say is FORGET about any automatic version of the 456 or 456M. Secondly, I would definitely pass on the original 456 version because Ferrari made quite a few design mistakes with that car that were fixed for the M version. I don't wish to offend any regular 456 owners or disparage the car terribly, but the car really does have a lot of components that just don't work properly even when the car is in "perfect" condition. In my near-expert (if I may say so) Ferrari opinion, it's just not worth the trouble. You can read about these two points in other threads. The topics have been discussed over and over. Again, I am sure there are lots of nice 456s GT out there and owners who will vouch for the model, but it's pretty much fact that the car is highly undesirable to the marketplace precisely for these reasons. This would leave you with choosing a 456M GT -- a 6-speed version. Unfortunately, you would have trouble finding one as Ferrari only produced some 300 of them or so for the US market between model years 1999 and 2003. If youc an find one, it won't be cheap. Look to pay anywhere between $70K and $100K. There's no set market because of the rarity. The market is what the seller chooses to establish. We've already debated this market question and I am not being biased here even though I am a 456M owner. Let's not turn this into a market debate, folks -- let's leave that for the other well-known 456 market threads. Continuing, the 456M GT is a fine, modern machine with just enough of that old-school character to make it a "real" Ferrari. I'll get back to the 456M GT in a moment. Now, the Mondial. The US-spec 1989 Mondial t is a bit different from its US-spec 1990-1993 Mondial models. The 1990-1993 US-spec Mondials are all convertibles. They also have that ridiculous motorized seat belt system. I don't mean to offend Mondial t owners here as the seat belts are not a huge deal but they are pretty tacky, annoying, and definitely troublesome. The 1990-1993 cars also have silly bolsters below the dashboard that consume a significant amount of knee/leg room; they were required for US safety laws. Lastly, the 1989 cars have the Motronic 2.5 version and the US coupe version wasn't around to benefit from the upgrade some time in 1990 to the Motronic version 2.7. That said, the Motronic version 2.5 works okay and it can be dealt with. See threads elsewhere to see the different between 2.5 and 2.7. The Mondial t convertible is a totally different experience from the coupe. I won't discuss the convertible because I don't have any experience with it. The Mondial t (coupe or convertible) is a much cheaper car than the 456M GT. Also, I would say it's more reliable. The 348 engine is absolutely bulletproof. You should get rid of the factory catalytic converters but other than that you should have no major problems. The 456/M cars are known to have some cooling issues, and these are somewhat related to known valve guide issues. The 456M does have some silly electric problems like seat motors/sensors and other little electrical issues. The 456 when it debuted in 1992 at the Paris Auto show was Ferrari's FIRST fully modernized, fully electronic car. As such, they made lots of mistakes on their first go-round and some of the design flaws naturally carried over to the M version. That said, none of my little issues on my 456M have been that big of a deal. Well, my radiator just cracked, but I suppose that is kind of a fluke thing that could happen to anybody The 456M will be more expensive to maintain. It's a V12 which means it's the real high-roller Ferrari with real high-roller parts pricing. There aren't a lot of these cars which means that parts are not in inventory everywhere or being produced in large numbers, which means that the ruthlessness with the pricing will be greater. ------------------------------------------------ Ok, the driving and overall experience. I love each of these cars differently. I will never sell either. The Mondial t coupe is a real sports car with four seats. At 182 inches, it's small enough to be a sports car and large enough to offer you some space. The back seats are definitely usable and they provide more space than any Porsche 911 variant. It's very practical given the full size spare in the front compartment, foldable rear seats, and a nice-sized trunk. The car is a true mid-engine car with a V8 and with four seats: what other car in the history of the autmobile exhibits these characteristics? Not a one -- and this makes the Mondial a very, very cool car. With its terrific balance and its mid-engine configuration, the car handles flat as a pancake. The power steering provides excellent road feel. And the car is not at all a slouch in the power department -- it's got some pep. It's a very nimble car that will impress you especially given its price tag. It's got a sunroof and a neat electronically adjustable suspension (soft, medium, and hard). It's definitely a little old school as the shifter and the shift action are pre-modern. This does gives the car some character, but it's not for everybody. The ride in the Mondial can be a little harsh because it isn't too graceful when going over bumps. The 456M is a completely different animal. First, the V12 power. Those 435 horsepower and 5.5 litres of displacement just woosh you along on the highway. This car isn't quick -- it's *fast*. The gearbox is ultra-modern. It won't give you any silly second-gear-when-cold issues like the mondial's; it's not a stiff box like the mondial's; it also gives you a slightly more gratifying click as the gears move through the beautiful metal shift gate. The power steering is wonderful (with ample road feedback) as is the feel of the steering wheel itself. The ride: the ride is actually a little stiff on the 456M even with the stock 17-inch wheels, which I have. The car does take the bumps better than the Mondial as it's got more modern suspension technology, but don't think the 456M is cushy. It handles! This thing turns almost as flat as a pancake which is impressive for its size. At 187.5 inches, it's a large car and it will exhibit some larger-car mannerisms. It's pretty luxurious with highly aesthetically pleasing appointments in the interior. The car does have ASR, Ferrari's then-version of dynamic stability control. It *will* step in at times saving you from making a mistake. It's a nice system that offers modern safety. The Mondial t I take out when I feel like enjoying a practical raw Ferrari experience. It's a more practical true sports car. The 456M I take out when I feel like driving a Ferrari but I don't feel like dealing with the old-school quirks. Driving the 456M almost as simple as driving a normal car; but when you are driving it, you know you're in a Ferrari. The Mondial has a wonderful V8 Ferrari sound. It's intoxicating. In me, the car inspires a feeling of nostalgia as it was the best Ferrari was producing in the V8 class in its day. The Mondial t is the fourth generation of the original Mondial, which debuted in 1980. As such, it enjoyed various improvements and bug fixes. The 456M inspires in me a feeling of -- well, a feeling like I am a king. It's a nice machine that is quite understated. I hope this long speech helps, and feel free to ask me anything you wish.
Dave - Wow, perfect summary!!! I own a 575M and sometimes I am thinking of an (additional) 456M. Thanks a lot for taking the time to describe all pros and cons! Markus
Great. I just re-read my very lengthy post and it really didn't sway me one way or the other!! So, I am curious: are you leaning any one way more or less than you were before? Best, David
Good Question. I have often thought a 456 better meets all of my needs (than any other 4 seater Ferrari) and prior to purchasing my 348, I was looking at getting a 456M. Now that I am trying to get that 2nd Ferrari the most important issue for me is convincing the wife that its a good idea (not easy! but hence the 4-seater consideration). Recently however she informed me that she could live with the looks of a 456 because it didn't scream Ferrari (and its a very classy looking car) but she struggled a little with the Mondial. Your post has basically steered me back to the M, but that creates another problem for me re availability of good (and affordable) cars since I live in Australia and my choice is limited. To solve this issue I have been looking at importing a car but this too has proved difficult due to compliancing since we don't have a accredited workshop in Oz for complying either 456's (we used too, so that's rained a bit on my parade) or Mondial's. I have been working through this for a solution and thought I had found one....alas, I have not and anyway it was a 456 GT and not an M so after your post I don't feel quite so bad......so back to the drawing board again. Although I do not have a solution to my problems at this time, I get the feeling I might be able to more easily resolve these for the Mondial (notwithstanding the need to get my wife over the line re its looks), so I think at the moment thats where I am headed (even though I think we both prefer a 456M) and your post just confirmed for me all my expectations for either model. I think you captured their respective differences well and I for one would be very happy with either....... but as far as definately knowing where this is all headed...... its complicated so who knows.
Best comparison ever Dave!!!! I have a 3.2 so I guess that means I have to get a regular ol' 456 next.... Best, H
So my advice get a 2001 or later M GT, get it in a nice dark color so It doesn't stand out to much to keep you're wife happy. the trunk is big enoug to carry al the bags she might need. and if you want to take the kids no problem if there not to big they can get in the back up to 12 years old probbably. ( actually my daughter of 6 sits in the frontseat and my wife in the back, fits very nice ) hope this helps
Well done Dave (very well done). But remember there were 43 1989 t coupes sent to the US in 1989, not 42. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I was just browsing 456's in the UK and spotted this one: (not an M - a 95) http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2275708.htm It says it was complianced for Aussie market - if it has the compliance plate in the engine bay, you're golden.. although you will likely get hit for duty/gst on the UK purchase price (do some checking before buying - in case customs try to stiff you for duty/gst on the brand new price). Its not an M - but a 456 for that money isn't to be sniffed at with the current exchange rate. I'm sorely tempted and the devil on my shoulder says buy it anyway, despite a forthcoming overseas move. If I end up in the UK I'll be bringing something back with me.. I didn't realise until I arrived here how draconian Aussie import rules are.
I like the way you think PONG! So, check out this pics that ALEX and JARED took of mine... Better with age and such a nice behind... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I, also have both but different years: a 1990 Cabriolet T and a 456 GT 2+2, 1995. I wanted the older GT and not the M for purely looks and as what I understand was Enzo's desired looks on the car. This is a fairly good write, and no offense taken as I have to two models you do comment against [if only slightly]: However, you are correct in your takes. The only addition to the above is the 348 is more costly to regularly service in terms of water pump, belts, and such while the 456 can be done in situ. There is savings there by far. While the bottom line 'might' be more costly in 12 cylinders vs 8, I feel the 12 is not that much more overall unless you are replacing all the valves or a CAT or manifold rings etc. Both are very good engines and the valve guide issue on the 12 is holding well for me at 66k+ miles and counting [ya' I know, just wait until tomorrow.....knock on wood, knock on wood... ]. lot more issues but, searching the problems on the various threads will bring those to light... why state them endlessly again.
this would be a no brainer for me. go with the 456. Such an elegant car that doesn't get enough love.
Exactly... Totally agree.... Out of all my Ferraris, 456 is the least noticed yet mostly driven... Alex
Driven and worked on quite a few of both and would pick the 456 any day, even an older one. I've put 41,000 miles on mine with no that's zero problems. I also don't really like the way you sit so foreword and your legs sit so far to the right on the Mondial
Darren- Both great cars, but we are V12 lovers here. Hopefully you got exactly the opposite advice in the Mondial forum, or I will be disappointed. Taz Terry Phillips
Pretty much as you would have expected Terry, but some remarkably unbiased feedback as well which was very helpful I decided to go the 456 route but the car I was looking at fell through (it would have been a great deal) so now I am sitting tight. Ill post again if something changes
Ok decision made, now just have to find a car. Looking for a 456GTM 6 speed RHD as preference but havent been able to find one that is within my budget....yet. Looking at GT's also as I expect that is where I will end up (not exactly the end of the world), price is right and more manuals seem to be available
Darren- All the early 456 GTs were 6 speeds. The automatic was not avaialble until CY 96, so there are nearly four times as many 6 speeds as autos (1534 vs 402). For the 456M, the split was about even, but fewer cars were built. On the RHD UK Ms, production was heavily biased towards automatics, 4:1. No numbers on the Australian M version split. Taz Terry Phillips
