Harley-Davidson Blackline

They still are in need of "starter bike's one's made by them not some cheap bike made by someone else , yet still have a reasonable pricepoint. They should design a nice 500 V twin and price like VW does , they tend to price slightly more than the competition , justifying it as having a better product , and not just selling cheapo cars.

 

Not bad. I personally like a fat front tire.

 

I like some of the dark custom HD's. the nightster was a great design that never caught on. I think it's the whole "factory custom" thing, vs. buying your own basic bike and modding it.

at one point HD was doing a deal where if you bought a new nightster, you could trade it in on a (more expensive) HD and get back what you paid for it. so they're clearly going after a younger demographic and trying to make them loyal. a good idea, since the average age of HD riders I see seems to be somewhere late 50's/early 60s.

 

The 883 is $8k. I'm not sure a 500cc HD Twin will have enough horsepower to pull itself much less a rider.

 

cheap until you compare to a Honda Rebel, which is under $4k new (and $1500 all day long on craigslist)

 

?

 

Harley is simply not going to be able to compete on price. They can go as low as possible and the Japanese will undercut it. American laws and labor costs see to that.

Their only real chance is either convince potential buyers they are buying better quality/value or have a product image that makes people willing to part with the extra money. They have done pretty well with those two avenues.

 

I agree. Personally I think skinny front tires should have gone out when Peter Fonda and Dennis Hopper were riding buddies.

 

didn't harley move to india?

 

they're building a plant there, for the Indian market.

far cry from "moving" there.

 

I was going to say bollocks but then I re-read and yes you are right Harley Davidson could not make a good enough 500cc twin that would move a bike.

My Suzuki GS500 (my work and back transport) is plenty fast enough and while no rocket would blow a HD to the weeds and that is just in a straight line. But yes that is not what HD's are about.

BTW quoting Mike Lowney: "The Blackline is a motorcycle for all those who run by their own rules."

This time I will say bollocks. People buy Harleys they want to fit IN with a certain culture. That is not running by their own rules. There is no other reason anybody would own one (I'd think about a Buell but never a Harley, I can always use my wheel barrow if I want that lack of technology feel).

My bike is parked next to a matt black HD of what to me looks like this bike and I quite like the look of it but even if I liked the inefficient concept this forced image is a turn off.
Pete

 

You could say the same of people who buy Ferraris, Ducatis, expensive Scotch, or Bruno Magli shoes and you would be just as wrong.

Just because someone seeks different characteristics in motorcycles, cars, booze or shoes than you does not make their choice invalid or an attempt to be part of a group.

 

Another Jap bike bigot. While I no longer have a Harley in my motorcycle garage, they are fine motorcycles for their intended use;cruising. And I think you will find that there are a lot of Ferrari and other exotic car owners who own one or more Harleys. FYI, I currently own a BB512i,an Audi, 4 Japanese and 1 Austrian motorcycles, and will likely own another Harley one day. So I guess I want to fit IN with many cultures?

 

As you said, Harley will assemble bikes in India for the region's sales.
http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2010/11/01/harley-to-assemble-motorcycles-in-india.html

Seeing into the future, I could easily see certain products become Indian-made only and then exported back to the US and elsewhere. Or it could be used to put pressure on US labor with the threat at the very least.

Victory is already closing their MN plant and moving to Mexico. Harley has threatened to close the York plant and possibly even move from Milwaukee unless their labor costs can be reduced.

Here is the thing...Harley is an icon that is past its prime and in decline. They hemmoraged money throughout 2008-09, the bleeding has only slowed in 2010 (another $40M loss in Q4). Dealers were stuck with increasing inventory, aging customers, and a narrowing product line with the Buell closure. I have little confidence that their CEO, Keith Wandell, has any clue what the f*** he is doing or what motorcyclists want.

As for the Blackline? WGAF. It is just another antique of dubious quality with a nice paint job. I wouldn't keep it if it was given to me.

 

maybe veering off topic but I think picking a fight with the unions will be particularly difficult for HD, considering how many blue collar/union guys ride their bikes.

 

I'm not a Jap bike bigot. I would like to own a Guzzi or Ducati one day. Like the modern Triumphs and like I said like the looks of the HD blackline, and I like the looks of many vintage bikes (Indians, etc.).

But I do not like the 45 degree twin concept because it is just wrong from an engineering point of view. You are constantly trying to make something good out of something that is flawed by physics. HD should move to a 90 degree twin and then they would not be fighting physics.

BTW: The reason I own a GS500 is because I ride it 2 hours every work day and it is very comfortable and will cruize along happily with my only complaint a bit of wind blast issues. The difference is if I want to push it a bit it will handle in the corners reasonably well and thus I can have fun. You can't do that on a HD, but can of course with a Buell.

Thus we have the engine constantly fighting physics which can be so easily solved because we know nowadays how to make a balanced twin and we have a frame design that is also fighting physics that yes makes it a cruizer but there are everyday bikes like mine that are very comfortable that you can cruize on that have the more correct weight on the front wheel.

Thus the conclusion is HD's are designed like that purely for the look to support the image, no function involved. Maybe Morgan would be the car equivalent, and yes a lot of people like Morgan's as do HD's ... but just say it like it is, as does Morgan, ie. HD is selling to a certain culture who like that 1920's vintage look, not so their riders "can run with their own rules" ... heck there are hundreds of them in Sydney, as there are Ducatis ... no own rules bollocks they are all fitting in with an image.

Also I've chatted with many HD owners and they are invariably accountants, etc. and old like me ... my point: cut the tough man image cr@p Harley marketing, they are just riding a bike they like as we all are.
Pete

 

They are already doing it with the public threats to leave PA and WI. Even a decade ago the average income of a new Harley buyer was over $80k. Perhaps deep in the confines of H-D upper management boardrooms they have a belief that Harley as a brand doesn't need the blue collar folks in favor of professionals and foreign buyers.

They already shut down Buell, a brand that was actually operating in the black for the the first time and appealed to a completely different set of buyers. When they closed Buell it cost approximately a quarter of a billion dollars. Bombardier made not one but two offers to buy Buell outright (they made the engines for the water-cooled bikes), both times they were rejected.

So instead of interesting and fast bikes from Buell, new buyers are encouraged to buy some POS stripped down Sportster. Insulting to anyone that knows anything about bikes.

Idiots run the company.

 

+1.

But didn't Buell take a big risk by designing their own engine, or buying engines from somebody other than HD? Hardly going to make the parent company happy, but pity that the company was closed though.

I park near a guy that rides a HD engine Buell and has for years and he loves it.
Pete

 

its a good looking bike, I would have gone with taller risers and more of a drag type handle bar, but that can be easily fixed.

I have a couple bikes, including a harley and a ducati, I like the direction harley is going trying to attract a younger crowd, and it has been working. 10 years ago no one under 35 rode a harley, today its more common.

 

I hope they succeed as we need diversity and America needs jobs, etc.

I personally would have made Buell the younger market and HD the more mature market, but what do I know?
Pete

 

That bike doesn't look much different than a Sportster or a Dyna. It definitely doesn't look different enough to appeal to younger riders, I don't think.

The Sportster 883 actually startes at $7k (for the low), the Iron is $8k. I can't imagine people will buy this in droves. Also, I noticed it uses the 96B twincam but it's rigid mounted???? I am amazed by that. Can that be right?

Anyway, I love these bikes because I make $$$$$$ whenever Harley releases a new model. Rocker, Irons, V-Rod, Blackline - bring 'em on!


To support PSK, my experience has been that most people buy Harleys to be part of the brand and image, not because they are bike guys and just love that bike. They almost all dress the same, because it's part of a culture. Been that way for years.

 

How many younger riders want a cruiser with a wallowy crap suspension? HD is going to have to address that before younger riders start lining up with their cash. And really, $15k is a lot off, considering their target market and the fact that the motorcycle does nothing well.

They could start with the 883. Give it real power and a suspension that's actually modern and they might be headed towards catching the eyes of the younger crowd.

 

That's why I find this quote so amusing:

"The Blackline is a motorcycle for all those who run by their own rules."

Yeah, to look like the rest of the cruiser crowd. What a bunch of individualists.