Well, not EVERY year. They sold a 1000 in the life of the dealer there. Sorry if I made anyone misunderstand. It's still extemely impressive when you think of the enviroment and the fact that every Ferrari (every car in fact) has a 100% tax on it. A typical F430 spider would sell for $550,000 new. I believe China has a similar importation tax. So, if the FF sells for $300K, someone in China will have to pay $600K. And... the WILL sell them.
That's great. I am glad you two enjoy your alone time together. But what it has to do with Ferrari's poor global brand position and dismal market penetration in Asia in general, and China in particular, is a mystery. On the other hand, maybe you can part with your friend long enough for him to share his utterly mesmerizing marketing expertise with Serg over an espresso. Heaven knows, Fiat needs it.
Actually, we do enjoy our time together.. don't we ryalex! (if you need a lawyer in Las Vegas --- he's the guy to get you out of the pokey!) As I said above, there is a 100% importation tax on every car shipped into China. I would like you to imagine if the US had a 100% tax on every Japanese, German, and Italian car imported into it. Do you think it might have a bit of a "dismal" effect on sales? Ferrari just took over the importation and dealership into Japan from one of their distributors. The reason is to try to get more control of selling in that market. If you know anything about the Japanese market, you know that it's one of the most difficult for any manufacturer to enter. In addition, the laws are such that you must demonstrate you have a parking space big enough to own one before you can be allowed to purchase it. It's things like this and the safety and registration regulations that make it difficult for anyone to import a vehicle into Japan. Yes, it is done, but it's only for the very wealthy and those who really, really want it. My understanding is that there are 2 F430's in Vietnam, sold new out of the dealer in Hong Kong. Now, if you don't think Vietnam is a tough market to sell exotics, you've obviously never been there! I've traveled throughout Asia for years and I would say their "brand recognition" is everywhere. I've been to Ferrari of Bejing and it's in the most fashionable center of the city-- on their version of the Champs elysee', 5th Ave or Rodeo Drive. I've seen auto parts stores in small towns in China that have a big illustration of an F50 on the building. The problem is that each market has it's own problems with importation, taxes, and consumer disposable income. It's not for the lack of knowledge or "want". It's just difficult or expensive to do.
Au contraire! I am afraid it is you, my fellow tifosi, whom is a little... er, discombobulated. The points I have made are as follows, in no particular order: A. The world is changing and China is now the dominant market B. Ferrari is not well positioned as a global brand outside of its traditional markets (Europe and North America) C. Ferrari's reliance on F1 racing to establish and cultivate its brand is a terrible strategy as F1 has virtually no audience in Asia/China and it will take many years to develop, if ever D. Ferrari is facing stiffer competition from its traditional rivals and perhaps even more dangerous competition from up-starts like Lexus and Nissan (by the way, those are ASIAN companies.... shhhh, don't tell anybody!) E. Ferrari is dangerously lagging its German rivals and is coming waaaaay late to the Asia/China party F. Ferrari's recent designs and execution have been spotty--kudos for the Italia, but lower marks for the California and FF (the latter are not awful designs, by the way, but definitely not on par with the 458) G. One would have to be willfully delusional to believe that sellling 1,000 Ferraris to the largest market in the world is somehow worth celebrating when its rivals are selling hundreds of thousands of cars in the very same markets. Yep, that's a pretty much it. And I have yet to read any compelling arguments refuting one of those points. Some snarky foolishness, yes, of which I am glad to oblige and return But nothing that even remotely resembles a bonafide retort.
That was a senseless post and does not help your argument. Cherry sells 5 times more cars in China than Benz does...are you then going to say that the Chinese arent aware of who Mercedes Benz is since Cherry outsells it ? At this point you know you are wrong and will just obfuscate and deflect the argument so you dont have to admit you are wrong. We see your kind all the time. I just noticed you are brand new to the forum...well at least you are using this screen name
I'll just address G as it seems to be your conclusion. 1000 units in any new market is a big success for a company the size of Ferrari. It doesn't matter if MB, Cherry, Nissan, Lexus or Coca-Cola sell more units.
A) China is NOT the dominant market. It's a growing and important market but so is Latin America, Eastern Europe, and Russia. You're simply incorrect here. B) Who says? Go to Ferrari.com and look at all their dealerships in all the countries around the world. We have one person on Fchat who just got his 458 in Bogata Columbia. We have several who have gotten them in Singapore -- which you can drive across in half an hour. C. Ferrari is better known in Asia than any other brand, including GM which sells more cars in China (because they've had a plant in Shanghai for over 10 years now) than they do in the US. What do you want them to do, advertise on TV? There is simply no need as everyone who can afford one knows how to get one and where. D). Well, here's where you are really, really wrong. The Chinese don't like Japanese cars. Sure, they buy some. But, in the luxury area, they would prefer Cadillac, BMW, and Mercedes over Lexus anyday. E). I'm not sure lagging is the proper way to describe the delay. It's more like a lack of production available. You see, we in the US complain about "production" -- that is... too much of it. That's because we worry too much that the cars will all be shipped here. The fact is that Ferrari is increasing production NOT to sell more cars to the US but to ship them to emerging markets. They haven't had much more capacity to fill large markets like Russia and China very well in the past. The addition of the California is helping in that regard. F). That's your call. Some of us would beg to differ. It doesn't sound like you'll be buying any of these cars anyway so I wouldn't worry about it. G). That's 1000 cars in Hong Kong, a population of 7 million. Now divide 1.5 billion by 7 million, then multiply it by 1000 and what number do you get. Its... a lot! Ferrari will NEVER go above 10,000 cars a year unless they have to farm out production beyond Maranello, which I bet they never do. So, with 4,000 going to the US/North America, and another 3000 going to Europe, that leaves 3,000 for the rest of the world... including China. If you can only ship the rest of the world 3000 cars a year, why do you need more market penetration in Asia? Go ahead and answer that one...
Hmmm. I want you all to pay attention. Because this is the part where Mr. Ryan turns blue as he chokes on his banana (at least we all hope its a banana.) You argue that all cars entering China pay a 100% import tax, right? Then... tell me, Mr. I Have A Marketing Genius On Speed Dial... If this import tax is such an impediment to selling cars in China and excuses Ferrari's pathetic sales... Please explain how Mercedes-Benz managed to sell over 147,000 cars there last year? And then explain how BMW managed to sell more than 120,000 cars there last year? And then explain how lowly GM managed to sell 2,350,000 cars there last year--more than all the cars it sold in North America? Do these companies exist in an Alternate Universe? Does China only apply this exorbitant import tax to automobile manufacturers whose names ends in vowels? We're all waiting. <crickets chirping > Game. Set. Match. Don't try to out-save me, pal. I AM The Saver.
I'm curious why you say that they'll never go above 10K. Not long ago that figure was unimaginable and in today's market if you don't grow you die. The question is how you manage that growth so as to preserve a brand identity that incorporates exclusivity.
You sound like a real nice pompous ass, did you ever consider that the starting price of a vehicle comes into play? Kai
I don't think Ferrari would, perhaps a feeder brand owned by them (Dino, or Scaglietti or whatever) might.
Easy, they were built there. GM runs two major JV partnerships. 8% of total sales go to government buyers. Source: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-12/31/content_12732706.htm
So far they've avoided diminishing the band in that way. The problem is that without increasing production capacity hugely and adopting more mass production techniques they couldn't offer a car at a meaningfully lower price. Besides that's what Maserati and Alfa are for.
But I have. Over the years they've grown greatly. No reason they need to stop now. Thanks for calling me your friend though Image Unavailable, Please Login
Someone needs to have their mouth cleaned out with soap. Thank you for the compliment! I am Mr. Marketing Genius on Speed Dial. How did you know? GM makes the cars in China. So, they are cheap. And, it's been there like 20 years (I forgot exactly) so it has infrastucture. The Shanghai plant I believe is the largest auto plant in China. GM doesn't import any cars -- maybe Cadillac but I'm not sure. All are built domestically (like Honda, Kia, Nissan, etc do in the US.) There's a large Honda factory in Donguan China. I've seen it. It mainly produces micro cars. The ones I've seen it make are too small for the US market. You don't see luxury cars leaving that plant. If you really want to know who is late, it's Ford. They are building a huge new plant in Eastern China to try to catch up. Ferrari's "excuses" to "pathetic" sales has to do with a lack of production, not a want or desire of people in Asia or Ferrari's want to sell there. The math is pretty simple. You did pass math in grade school, right?
They COULD grow but it's just not going to happen there. The infrastruture and village can't tolerate more. The residents already complain about the nose, the track, the F1 testing, the polution, etc. Doubling the size of the factory just isn't in the cards. It's like LAX airport in Los Angeles. Yes, it needs to be enlarged but the community won't tolerate more planes, noise, traffic, etc.
With an eye out for lightening bolts may I offer that there are other locations. If need be all Ferraris could still be assembled in Maranello but component manufacturing could move to other locations freeing up space.
A. I guess you missed the earlier part about GM selling more cars in China than in the US? Pause on that little tidbit. Now repeat: GM sells more cars in China than it does in the US. GM sells more cars in China than it does in the US. Just keep repeating it, and it will eventually sink in. B. People a whole lot smarter than you say so. C. F1? The WWF has more worldwide recognition. D. I'm really, really wrong? That sounds serious. Have you been talking to my wife again? E. You're right. "Lagging" isn't the right word. "Slogging along in abject failure" paints a more accurate and interesting mental picture. F. Judging by the acidic responses posted in this FF thread and others, my reaction has been positively tepid and even-handed. G. Watch the video and pay attention. That's 1,000 cars in C-H-I-N-A. And I'm pretty sure that Serg doesn't believe Ferrari will never (that's a long time, by the way) sell more than 10,000 units yearly. Certain of it, actually. Thanks for playing!
The funniest thing I've heard all day. Seriously, that was a belly whomper. Thanks for making me laugh!
