broken mannteo switch in 430

Manneto??? The little red switch on the steering wheel is called Manettino. I would call the dealer or your Ferrari indie on this one. Is the switch broken off or not changing settings when you turn it?

 

It should start up saying what mode it's in on the display.

I wonder if it's in some kind of safe "limp" mode given you really think it's shifting improperly. Is it saying anything on the display?

 

Phil, take it to your local F dealer and let them deal with it...could be a computer malfunction or a connection in the actual physical switch. What city are you in?

 

That symbol ain't good. That doesn't necessarily mean it's expensive but you need to get it to the dealer for an evaluation. It could be any number of things but it's highly unlikely it's the switch.

That symbol is most likely indicating traction control failure.

 

Phil- Same thing when you deselect AUTO?

You can do an ECU reset by turning off the battery switch for a while and then turning it back on. Letting it idle with accessories off will allow the Motronic to relearn after reconnecting.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

That's a good point and worth a try but I wonder why he has this slow shifting problem. I've never heard of that before with an ECU problem.

 

Me either. The 360, CS and F430 are all documented as having a 150 ms min shift speed. If his Manettino is indeed fouled up, he may have been getting Sport mode instead of Race mode, and the shifts are slower in Sport. Not sure what speed you get with the Auto button depressed when you use the paddles. Slow, though.

Bad news is I am not sure there are spare parts for just the Manettino. The parts catalog just shows the entire wheel and nobody wants to know how much one of those costs.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Mine fouled up like this at one time. It was because the switch was actually stuck between two positions. Drove HORRible,! Fortunately, it reset when I turned the car off.

Take to dealer

 

Phil- Find a source that says different. According to multiple sources, min shift time is 150 ms for the 360, CS, and F430. "No way" does not cut it for hard numbers unless you can back it up.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

You can somewhat tell which mode by the exhaust tone. If your exhaust changes tone (very noticeable) above 4,000rpm, the system is either in sport or race. If it doesn't, you're in snow or low-grip.

 

av2- The exhaust bypass valves are not affected by the Manettino switch. The Motronic ECUs only care about gear selected, rpm and throttle setting. If the mode selected restricts the engine from full power, then they bypass valves will not work, as you stated.

Taz
Terry Phillips
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Terry, as always, you're feedback is great There is just a slight different operation of the exhaust valves between WET and Sport/Race/CST Off-modes. I just posted a detailled spreadsheet on how exactly the exhaust valves operate http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=310472#11

Stef

 

Thanks, Stef & Terry.

Confirms my experiments with the manettino. Valve always opens circa 3000-3500.

 

The Manettino switch may not directly control the exhaust bypass valves, but selecting different modes does affect their operation. I'm not disputing your factory info, but these are my experiences with the car over two years.

When driving my 430 in the low grip mode (which is a rarity), the valves will not open under the same moderate rpm/throttle-positions that regularly open them in Sport and Race modes. The car is very quiet when driving normally in the low grip mode. I believe the valves will open during large throttle positions/high rpm, though I've never driven the car that hard in low grip mode.

In Sport mode (which I drive in most often), the valves open under moderate throttle-pressure/rpm. In Race mode, they open under even less throttle-pressure than in Sport mode and, IIRC, at a slightly lower rpm.

 

Stef- Great data and I added it to my hard drive. What exactly do you think the hysteresis represents?

Rob- You are correct. Here is Stef's chart from the other thread. I was wrong because the rain mode does affect the Motronic command to the bypass valve. Nothing on it making any difference what gear you are in like the WSM says, either. It did in the 355.

Phil- You are the expert. Whatever you say.

Taz
Terry Phillips
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hysteresis... From looking at the chart, I am guessing it's when the valves are not fully closed or opened.

 

Hopefully it's a glitch because a new steering wheel is like $4,500 as I was told.

 

Suspect valve is either closed or open.

I think hysteresis is used here as in all similar systems with on/off control (thermostat comes to mind). This is in order to prevent oscillation (on-off-on-off-on-off...) in case your throttle input happens to be right at the transition point, however unlikely. Thus you see "hysteresis" at all the transitions between off and on on this map. All it means is that the valve will open at one rpm on the way up the rev curve, but close at slightly different and lower lower rpm on the way down the rev curve.

 

Makes sense to me because the solenoids are not proportional devices.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Yes re solenoid. Hysteresis is a std anti-"hunt" solution for bang on-bang-off controls.

 

Hysteresis phenomena always occur in magnetic materials which is typicaly the case with the coils used in the solenoid valves. It represents the lag that occurs between the application and the removal of the current and it's subsequent effect like it has somehow a memory of his previous state. In physics, you can compare it like an elastic band. Hang some weights on it, even if you remove them, the elastic band will "remember" it and it will take time to get it back into his initial state.

So in our case, it just means that even if the Motronic received the right conditions to open the valves, that the valves will not open. There is an important lag between fast binary decisions made by the ECU and the concrete physical action of it. To open the exhaust valves, current must be removed from the solenoid valves, but the coil and subsequent magnetic field operating the internal valve will need time to restore to its initial state.


My English isn't perfect but I hope you got the idea
Stef