This may be the first F-Chat thread that has split and had both halves bomb.
On a more relevant point, considering this thread is based around design, is Ferrari pulling from anything in the past with their current designs? It seems like Ferrari's more concerned with pushing the envelope. They undoubtedly have a more avant garde design philosophy, and what other high-end manufacturer takes those risks? And let's face it, something like this would typically be considered a risk. One which would be daring without a substantial pedigree under any other brand-name.
So, what have we learned from these 43 pages... First, critiquing design is like evaluating any other art form... it rests with the individual. Second, arguing that your view of design is better than the other guys is a useful and fruitful as literally burning dollar bills for fuel in your fireplace. Third, that people should just pose their opinions of how THEY feel about it and then just shut up already. Trying to convince someone else that their view of beauty is better somehow is simply pointless. And, doing it aggressively is counterproductive to their argument as well as damaging to long term relationships. I think that pretty much sums it up.
True. But few of us can afford a Picasso but we certainly can critique it. I have no problem with people giving their opinions. But when the self proclaimed Ferrari design police shout down any reasonable discussion, it just turns most of us off.
I'm in that category. However, I didn't criticise it as a way of dealing with envy; there are loads of cars I love and can't afford - many of them Ferraris. I respectfully, but completely, reject the notion that had I the means to purchase the FF I'd feel differently about its styling. I am sure that on a technical level it will be an astonishing car... but its aesthetics are still unfortunate. All the best, Andrew.
Irrelevant. Some people drive a Ferrari because it is a status symbol. If they hear that most people ridicule this car because of it's looks then they won't buy it.
I don't know how widespread the dislike will be. We within the Ferrari community tend to be the hashest critics. The badge will be enough to impress most of the hoi polloi.
Clarkson will say (with great humor) whatever will get the biggest rise from the audience as usual. In this case going against the grain might mean liking it.
I kinda like the silly thing. I guess its designed to open doors to a wider and possiably more conservative client base. Smart marketing move on Ferrari's part.
I liked the comment about Ferrari taking an "Avant Garde" approach. How many other brands are doing "safe" designs? I still want to see this one in the metal
I think Pininfarina/Ferrari are indeed taking an approach which would be considered very bold by any other manufacturer's standards. Where there's such a history behind the Prancing Horse, taking evolution to these lengths is risky. You're going to divide way before you unite when taking a classic concept like the grand tourer and adding a hatch. It shows major confidence. Let's hope the performance and build quality back up the name...
Great for us, the Ferraristi: if only people who like the car and don´t care about others say buy it we can get rid of the cliche about Ferraris as status symbols for idiots with too much money.
Wow..thin skin ? Even the person I was exchanging with didnt see it as an attack. My comment was pretty clear. People need to understand the difference between their opinion and a fact. The poster I was talking to said 'the FF is ugly, plain and simple'. Thats a pretty absolute statement. When it comes to design there is only one fact...nothing is absolute.
Id be very interested in seeing you prove this accusation. Im probably one of the most mellow and level headed people on this forum (certainly not the most humble though) I wasnt even telling the poster he was 'wrong'...I was just pointing out that its his opinion and pretty offensive to those who like the car to attempt to label his opinion as some kind of fact. Your post is more of a personal attack than anything Ive said... I just cant get my head around how anyone can view my post as a personal attack. If it qualifies then pretty much anyone disagreeing with another poster is personally attacking them. I even went out of my way to say 'Emperor of Design' so it was seen as comical and not too harsh.
After seeing many 599s, I would still say it's an average car design by Ferrari/Pininfarina standards. IIRC, even the designer mentioned at the time that Maserati got the Gran Turismo which was a much better proportioned car, and the Alfa 8C is an outright work of art. The 458 has its detractors, but overall if you look back through the intro threads here it was solidly embraced on FChat. Even those of us who aren't fans of the plastic amoeba school of design (360/F430) doffed our caps to the 458 before ever seeing one. The FF hasn't received a warm reception here, and I doubt it will ever have an enthusiast following. It is, as you say, another Ferrari designed to be normal and domesticated. It's not an extreme boutique item like an F40, or practicality-be-damned exercise like a 308/328. Maybe true -- the rich are getting richer, and a lot of them are China. Porsche's recent sales show the Cayenne and Panamera leading the back, with only 88 Caymans sold in either Nov or Dec, IIRC. Catering to the purist no longer seems to be the path to profit. I wonder if the automotive purist is an endangered species. I think they're making token nods to their past (e.g., California hood scoop and retro package, GTO badge on the 599), but the newer models (360 and up) are too modern to really tie to the past. The FF, 599, etc., are based on what the market is, and what technology allows. Face it, the FF is supposed to do 208 mph and go from 0-60 in 3.7 sec or thereabouts. That's staggeringly fast -- basically a shooting brake/wagon is going toe-to-toe with the beloved F40. And with all of the electronic gizmos I'd bet it handles well on a track. Maybe we're slaves to the past and Ferrari is living in the present, where people like to carry crap around and no longer need to make the compromises of the last deprivation-style sports cars (Boxer/308/328). You can now have it all, and the FF offers automated shifting and presumably automated climate control on top of it.
