458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

That's interesting. Why do you think the hydraulic suspension won't be as drift friendly? Just curious.

As to the larger point of fun to drive, given its significant weight/stiffness advantage, I expect the McLaren to be as alive as the scud without the sense of isolation that Italia offers (see for example Forza's comparison of the scud and 458). Again, this is just speculation, we will know on Monday.

 

Again, this is just a hunch - my understanding of the hydraulic system is that it reacts to yaw and other directional sensors to stiffen and counter roll in the corners, but then decouples on the straights to improve vertical damping. It's the transitions from a decoupled state to the cornering state and back that I think may be a foreign sensation to most journalists (and other drivers).

Harris, in particular, and most of the British journos, are big into drifting and sliding a car around low-speed hairpins and mountain switchbacks, etc. They definitely seem to place a premium on how gradually the steering and suspension load up, so that they can control the weight transfer on the way into a slide. I just don't think the 12C will be set up to appeal to that sensation. I think it will be be more like a go-kart or a formula car - it will have immense traction, but will "snap" sideways when that traction is deliberately overwhelmed. Not saying that it won't be sharp and balanced. But sharp and balanced don't always equate to fun to drive, especially on public roads.

That said, I expect monster performance on the racetrack, for a car in this class. I think the hydraulic setup and brake steer, combined with the low centre of gravity, will give excellent high-speed cornering ability. Similarly, and most importantly on the track, the braking looks like it will be top notch. Whether any journalists will be able to maximize it, I don't know - it seems many of them have met their match already in the 911 GT2 RS, which I am sure is quite an intimidating ride.

There! Spoken as if I've already driven it!

 

Very interesting. You are right, though. If the car is not progressive in its reactions, it's not gonna be fun. Another concern will be the sound and throttle responsiveness.

 

Yeah, I'm interested to hear about the throttle response, too. McLaren claims it won't be an issue. But they all say that!

So far, I really like the sound that I hear in various videos. Especially that Goodwood one, there is a scene transition in that video where you hear the character of the V8 really well. Deep, but aggressive.

 

wow, I just saw this thread now has more replies and page views than the "458s On Fire" thread. I guess the 12C must be a 'hot' topic. okay I know, that was bad...

 

MB said that about the new 5.5TT (S/CL63),throttle response not affected by turbos (when compared to NA 6.2 liter V8) because of advances in technology.
I got the S for a daily driver as replacement for my SL63.
It DOES NOT have the same throttle response,not even close....

 

The speculation ends at 6am (GMT) on Monday morning at www.autocar.co.uk

 

When will Ferrari us a carbon fiber shell? Lamborghini started developing a carbon fiber shell.

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/2012-lamborghini-aventador-monocoque-carbon-fiber-shell-18825.html

 

I am anxiously awaiting that article as I'm sure are many of us.

 

Same thing with evo. They are gonna post their review at the same time (1a.m. EST). Some rumors going around on performance are just crazy. In fact, I think they are impossible, but we will see.

 

He is British, the car is British so its going one way....oh but there is a problem...can he put into print its better than a Porsche....oh dear he has to choose. Seriously though I will will take the opinion of any other writter above the one you mention.

Me, if it has to be British I would value the opinion of Steve Sutcliff higher than that of Chris Harris.

The MP whatever is ugly in my eyes, the interior appears bland and devoid of any character so personally its not my cup of tea, so what if the 458 is "slower"....neither car is slow.

 

In a little bit of a warm up for his review on Monday Sutcliffe describes the McLaren's performance as "cataclysmically quick".

 

We all know that the only review that counts, the definitive review, the review to end all reviews will be the Top Gear review (puts tin hat on and ducks for cover)...

I hope the McLaren wipes the floor with all it's rivals from Ferrari, Porsche and Lambo. This would be great for competition and would force everyone to up their game. Anyone who thinks the 458 is the absolute maximum that Ferrari can deliver for the price is deluded. It is a car engineered to meet the minimum acceptable needs of the segment and maximum need of the accountants. If the goal posts get moved up, Ferrari will absolutely respond - and may even accelerate the 458 Scud into production. We should all sleep easy about this. It's all good for us fans of the super car world.

 

Lots of expectations regarding these Monday reports.
I just hope to see some real independently verified performance stats and not just 'first impressions from a short ride and drive".....

 

yes, I'm hearing 0-124mph in 8.9s
I can't imagine how that is possible, unless McLaren has been sandbagging us on the horsepower figures.

 

Easy to do that with twin turbos.

 

This might be (barely) believable. The thing I cannot believe is the rumor that at top gear track, McLAren was faster than Italia by...wait for it... 2-4 seconds. 2 sec is unbelievable. 4 sec is impossible (it's Atom V8's time).

 

My hunch is that Journalists will say this beats the 458 in every measure. The word 'crush' will probably be used. For one thing, I think Ferrari tune the controls of their cars to be light and highly reactive to make it easier and superficially stimulating for more people to drive. I think that Mclaren will play less to the poseur crowd and try tune the controls more towards the enthusiast, ie journalist, crowd. I also think that the lighter weight of the 12C will be at the forefront of Journalists' minds and they'll be looking to fit that into their review everywhere they can.

Also, despite all the rumors we hear, I think Mclaren will have some surprises. They love secrecy and they love to exceed peoples' expectations. A couple of other rumors making the rounds is that the car will have an exhaust 'volume knob', and a sub 7 min (or close to it) nurburgring time.

 

If this is true, I would be floored. The Porsche 911 GT2 RS ring time of 7:18 was a huge deal; if the McLaren is higher than that...

wow.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1355999/Jenson-Button-drives-new-British-supercar-McLaren-MP4-12C.html

Posted this in British section but thought it was relevant here... Not much detail but some interesting into ahead of the full reviews in the next 48 hours

 

Substantiated?

 

AutoSport got 7:24.

 

I wonder if you can fit a 458 body over the top...

 

I'm guessing Autocar will have figures. Seems the thing they would do for something like this.

 

Agreed. Competition improves the breed but I cant help but think both are very different in character and in some ways they would actually complement each other pretty well. Of course preference also plays a part.

I know someone down here who has a 458 and is getting a McLaren so its going to be interesting to see how he rates each car.