458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

Official figures are never conservative, they always represent the absolute maximum. Magazine numbers represent something closer to real world performance

 

Sorry, but not the case at all, both Porsche and Ferrari typically understate straight line performance in official releases.

 

Not necessarily true. Porsche always gives underestimates of its performance figures (it claims 3.1 for 0-60 on the Turbo S, while the actual time is 2.6)

And the Daily Mail review claims a 3 sec time for 0-60 on the McLaren (though I'm not sure what type of tires they used).

EDIT: what krzys said

 

By the way, any Brits here watching Top Gear? Anything newsworthy on the Mc? I am too lazy to set up a proxy server to watch it.

 

You didn't miss anything. Quick walk around the car, James sits in, and very little to write home about as far as anything said.

 

Disappointing....

 

They did what they could, the embargo is still instated. I'm sure we'll see a test soon

 

I wouldn't bet on it. Took them forever to get round to the 458. They were about the last to get behind the wheel of the Ferrari.

 

But this is McLaren and British. I'm sure both parties will get it supplied soon enough, most likely next season. So a little wait but their opinion isn't always the most respectable...

 

Er... yeah, exactly. That will put them about six months behind everyone else.

 

I heard a UK paper busted the embargo so reviews are popping up already. Here is CAR mag: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/McLaren-MP4-12C-supercar-CAR-review-2011/

 

Holy ******! That is high praise!!

 

I'll hold out for a non-UK based review.

 

Also published their 2 page review however it requires subscription to read .. anyone?

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/ingear/cars/Driving/article543793.ece

 

They didn't break it, they just released it one minute into 12/14

 

here you go:
http://www.autobild.de/artikel/fahrbericht-mclaren-mp4-12c-1556314.html

 

The review gave it 4/5 stars

Text:

This is — as far as I can recall — what happens if you floor the throttle of a 592bhp supercar while exiting a roundabout in Portugal. First, the seven-speed dual-clutch transmission flicks from third to second gear. Next, the back of the car fishtails fractionally on the damp road surface before the tyres find traction. Then you are flung forward out of the roundabout by what sounds like a bunker-busting bomb detonating behind your head.
Welcome to the lightspeed world of the McLaren MP4-12C, the most anticipated car of the year and the most important British sports car for a decade.

The 12C — as it will inevitably become known — has been talked about in hushed tones around pub tables since it was unveiled just over a year ago. The reason is simple. For too long British engineers have brilliantly plied their trade making sports cars for the likes of small companies such as Noble, Ariel and Caterham. But they are a niche — cottage industry cars.

With this McLaren, British car fans may have a machine that can go hubcap to hubcap with Europe’s finest. And, unlike the traditional heavyweights from marques such as Aston Martin and Bentley, it will be a truly British car, built in the company’s factory in Woking, Surrey. In short, this could be the car that puts Britain back firmly on the supercar map.
With so much riding on it, and so much written about it, it has been easy to forget that nobody knows whether it is any good. The only people who had driven it were McLaren engineers, Chris Goodwin, the chief test driver, and his two young apprentices: a certain Jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton. Both Formula One drivers have taken the car for pre-launch drives and both have sung its praises — Hamilton took the car up the hillclimb at last year’s Goodwood Festival of Speed, then declared it was so good that he wanted one himself. But he would say that, wouldn’t he?

Which is why, as I was flung out of that roundabout in Portugal, staring bug-eyed at the road ahead, I couldn’t help a grin spreading across my face: I had discovered the answer to the most asked question in petrolhead land.
First, a bit of background. McLaren had chosen the Autodromo Inter!nacional do Algarve race circuit as the location for the first test drives of the 12C, and it is a measure of the car’s importance that the company had dragged Button along for the ride. The 2009 F1 world champion turned up with his girlfriend Jessica Michibata, and only half jokingly explained that he was there to make sure he got one of the 12Cs before Hamilton.
On paper, the 12C is a fearsome machine. When fitted with Corsa sports tyres, bespoke items developed with Pirelli, it is claimed to accelerate from standstill to 60mph in 3 seconds. The top speed is 205mph. It weighs just 1,301kg and the 3.8-litre V8 boasts 592bhp. It is also remarkably green (for a supercar), returning a claimed 24.2mpg and emitting 279g/km of CO2 .

Still, no amount of Top Trumps winning numbers can disguise the way a car makes your heart beat. To look at, the 12C is neat but not awesome. The best description one McLaren team member could come up with for its design was “timeless”. Seeing it parked in the pit lane, a better description would be “generic”. It looks as though lots of bits of other sports cars have been combined into one.

Despite attention-grabbing scissor doors that open to the heavens, the 12C has none of the swooping flourishes of, say, a Ferrari 458 Italia, or the angular beauty of the Lamborghini Gallardo. Or even the teenage wackiness of a Pagani Zonda. In short, it fails the vital acid test, whereby a supercar should demand a look over your shoulder as you walk away from it.

Then something happens that makes me forget about the pedestrian styling. Something very loud. And very fast. Something akin to a road being dug up and a gas main being struck: there’s an almighty explosion. It’s Button, searing along the start-finish straight at full pelt in a 12C, the racing champion working the car to the limit of its capabilities. The passing wall of sound from the engine and exhaust has heads swinging like a Wimbledon final match point.

Button stands on the pedal for the carbon-ceramic brakes, a huge airbrake aerofoil stands to attention on the 12C’s tail and before you know it, man and machine have disappeared through a tight right-left chicane to begin another high-speed lap of mischief.
“Right, who wants a drive?” says a McLaren man, rubbing his hands.
The 12C is in some respects the spiritual successor to the McLaren F1, a car that was so far ahead of the competition when it was launched back in 1992 that it held the title of world’s fastest production car for 13 years until it was overtaken by the Koenigsegg CCR.
But while the bespoke F1, which today changes hands for up to £2m, was a flight of fancy on the part of Gordon Murray, the McLaren chief designer, and Ron Dennis, the company’s boss, the 12C is a fully fledged production car.

Dennis has said it is the first stage in a strategy to create a global supercar brand with a stable of high- performance models. He plans to build three new supercars over the next six years, eventually churning out 4,000 cars a year (Ferrari makes about 6,000). “We’re building more than one car; we’re building a brand,” he says of the 12C.

Certainly, the cabin is a statement of intent. There are enough buttons and driving modes to make an Airbus A380 pilot feel at home. Something called the “active dynamics panel” sits neatly on the centre console and controls the various settings of the car — from suspension to transmission speeds and engine sound levels. Visibility is good and it is easy to get comfortable behind the wheel, not something you can take for granted in supercars.

Everything fades into insignificance when you start to drive. Working your way up through the flappy- paddle gears, you get a sense of controlled power, with a lot held in reserve. The car feels faithful, not flighty, responding to the driver’s commands with a reassuring immediacy. The only slight snag is the cast-iron disc brakes (the carbon-ceramic system is optional), which to me felt slightly lethargic, requiring more of a shove than you would like.

Potholes prove the hydraulic damping system can smooth broken roads into a sea of double cream. And the steering and engine work in unison with a subtlety that belies the car’s devastating potential. You could do the school run in a 12C if it weren’t for the fact that you would be mobbed at the gates by hundreds of Top Gear fans.
But of course it is on out-and-out performance that this car will be judged and in that respect, out on the track, the 12C is impressive. It builds speed out of corners as though it has been released from a giant slingshot. The throttle response is reassuringly linear. Even on a damp surface there are no nasty surprises of the type that in a lesser car would require a change of Nomex underwear.

Of equal importance is that the driver doesn’t feel like he is playing a super-size version of Sony’s Gran Turismo driving simulator. You can feel through the tips of your fingers and the seat of your trousers, and hear from the engine note how well the car is managing its reserves of grip and adapt your approach accordingly. And as with the 458 Italia, you can hold down the left-hand gearshift paddle during braking and the transmission drops through the gears for you.

There’s time for one more party trick: launch control. Developed from systems used in Formula One, it ensures a perfect standing start by removing human error and leaving everything to the car’s computer. With everything set, all I have to do is press the brake with my left foot and floor the throttle with my right. The moment I release the brake, the 12C takes off. The only car I’ve been in with such ferocity is a Subaru Impreza world rally car. It’s so fast your muscles involuntarily clench.

Is this awesome car good enough to beat the best of the rest? Is it better than the brilliant 458? Will it be able to hold its own against the upcoming Lamborghini Aventador, the replacement for the superb Murcielago? Is it a worthy successor to the F1 and will it be a solid enough seller on which to launch a range of cars and put the Surrey company at the top table of international supercar makers?

The answer to all these question is yes: there is a new supercar player on the field. McLaren has built one of the best cars in the world today and it has done so using British brains in Woking.

 

And, what elephant is that? That someone made a car that goes 0.2 sec faster to 60 or 1.2 sec faster to 120?

To the average buyer these kinds of numbers are not what they care about.

If they put it in some clothes that made you drool, then there's they'd have a real elephant to worry about. That's why people buy Lambo's -- to be outrageous and different. But, I don't see much drooling going on here.

Before I get smashed again here, I'm glad McLaren's doing this. Competition is good. But, I just don't see really what all the fuss is about to the average exotic buyer.

If you're telling me you might "lose less money" owning it, that doesn't seem like much of an incentive to buy.

After all, isn't a good thing that more people can own a Ferrari at various price points depending on their ability to spend?

 

This seemed a bit off-putting to me. Every thing else seems pretty cool, I'm not so sure it blows the 458 out of the water though. I'll be interested to see what EVO has to say, even if it's "better" (faster) I still love the 458

 

http://www.insideline.com/mclaren/mp4-12c/2012/2012-mclaren-mp4-12c-first-drive.html

 

Wow... I hope it sounds better in real life.