458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

You clearly have not been reading the thread very carefully. All of us here, including McLaren "enthusiasts" have clearly expressed concern about how the car feels. Go back and read.

Looks, sound and all of that matters, however performance is very important for HIGH-performance cars. We don't know yet for sure, but it looks like MP4 simply outclasses all street Ferraris and Porsches currently or ever in production. Which is pretty shocking if you think about it. To dismiss all of that by arguing that the turning vanes look dated is a bit strange for a car (as opposed Ferrari) enthusiast.

If you are really into cruisers, no problem. I enjoy them too.

As to Chris's rant, he is much more credible than Ferrari's (or any other manufacturer's) pr machine. He can only lose by coming out with the story. All the more so as he quotes very specific facts, which jibe with other evidence. Go and look at autocar's best handling car video for 2010 (won by RS). It takes blinders the size of a cavallino not to see a problem here, no matter what McLaren is or isn't. IF you enjoy being lied to, be my guest. Your bubble must be very cushy.

 

I have to say this is the one design choice I vehemently disagree with. The turbos help with efficiency, but what's the point? For cars that get driven a couple thou miles a year, how can it possible matter? Any exotic is effectively much more efficient than any hybrid if you look at usage patterns. It's such BS.

 

I do agree. Seems like it must be addressed in some way by all car manufacturers these days, for public relations reasons. At least in Ferrari and McLaren's case, they can now marry the message to the use of KERS in F1, now that the technology is making a return this season. But yeah, when you take usage patterns into consideration, it is all but irrelevant, IMO.

 

It's like with F1 going green in 2013 by switching to turbos. Now we are gonna have socially responsible motor racing. What's next? Socially responsible drinking binges?

 

I'll say it again.

Why don't you subscribe before you pound the locals.

 

Well, I have been on this forum for several years now, so I feel pretty local . Ok, so what's the benefit of subscribing?

 

Sounds really interesting to see Mac racing sportscars, which I like much more then F-1 anyway.
Do you know how they will deal with the brakesteering issue in some classes and I may be wrong, but aren't movable wings against rules in some classes? Anxious to see it race somewhere in the states.

 

I think you missed the point of CH's article (as a surprising number have).

He never said Ferrari wasn't building tremendous cars, in fact that was his point -

"the sad thing is its cars are so good it doesn't need all this ****e. I'll repeat that for the benefit of any vestige of a chance I might have of ever driving a Ferrari press car ever again (which is virtually none). "Its cars are so good it doesn't need this ****e."

Nothing has seemingly changed with his opinion of the cars themselves - still fantastic. He's finally just had enough of the Maranello Mafia and their silly games and tricks.

 

By subscribing you support the forum rather than freeloading!

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/14/2012-mclaren-mp4-12c-first-drive-review-road-test/

 

The benefit of subscribing is that you support the community. You make a commitment to the others on here and give people the impression you're here for the long haul. Not just on to the next big thing. If you don't understand the passion people feel for cars like the Ferrari when they look back at the greatness of it's history. Very few companies build cars over half a century like the Testa rossa, GTO Boxer P4, 312PB, BBLM, F40, F50 288 Enzo. I guess you may not understand how people feel attacked when you come on this forum and make the comments against this car.
I didn't know that you've been here for a long time. Didn't seem like it. I mean no offense , but it does seem to me that you are taking way too much joy in downgrading the thing that most everyone on here seems to love and admire. It's a little too pointed at the competitive thing which is what I personally don't like much. It's the same reason I don't like a lot of the supposed passion for pro football and baseball. It's too much about how the other guys team or players suck.

All the people so emboldened by the omnipotence of this car have never even been in it. Of those that have, none short of the working press have been for a ride let alone a drive.
All the comments about it handing Ferrari it's A** etc. I've heard those kinds of things a thousand times and each time cars like Ferrari and Porsche and Lamborghini raise the bar. This is not the end all, be all of cars.

Just my feelings. Not trying to start a battle.

 

Is it just me, or is anyone here really tired of the trite term "clinical"? It's a cliche expression. I'm not necessarily bringing this up just because of the McLaren, as it was used before as well -- that the 458 was "clinical" compared to its ancestors of the 60's and 70's, the 599 GTO was "clinical" compared to the GTO's of old, so on and so forth. I've also read this term in reviews of the Porsche Turbo models as well.

Do automotive reviewers tend to live in the past, and consequently every new revolutionary drive that comes along is initially regarded as "clinical"? Or are they justified in using this term?

Just trying to stir a friendly debate here

 

I assume they'll have to lose some of the technology like brakesteer that makes the 12C great, but I'm not up on the series rules and regs. The rendering they released about a month ago showed a fixed rear wing - you can see it here:

http://mclarengt.com/

>8^)
ER

 

No, I don't care about the wonderful cars of yore at all. I do care about the great Ferrari of yore that built performance cars that usually pushed the boundary of performance. I like Ferrari less nowadays as it seems to be engaged in a lot of marketing exercises and trying to become a better Lambo (with the new "GTO" or to a lesser degree with Italia). In general I think Ferrari made a mistake by dropping its Mille Chile direction and going for luxury and usability.

I am not here for the long haul. I am only here as long as Ferrari makes great cars and there is anything worth arguing about. I am not here to celebrate Ferrari, but to talk about great cars period. Why here? Since among legions of people who only care about the quality of carpet, there is a bunch of people her who love driving those cars and pushing them to the limit. That's where the glory of Ferrari is (or at least used to be). Not in how expensive and rare some classical car has become.

 

Actually, that would probably make for a really good generalised discussion worthy of its own thread. Would you like to start that one up in the General Automotive Discussion?

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Thanks, Andrew! I'll post it there.

 

Freeloading? Meaning all the other car forums are a giant swindle? Seriously. Although, it fits ferrari ethos: even standard features are optional and cost money.

 

Thanks Erik, That car looks awesome. I really can't wait to see all of these monsters racing each other.

 

Much better looking front end than the road car. Just don't know about the little curvy add-ons to the left and right of the front bumper, but def. better.

 

You know it's funny. I was gonna give you the benefit of the doubt, but now I'm just sick of the High School bullying. Speaking to someone about what they choose to believe is important. You are about as insulting as it gets. You dislike everything just because you don't understand it.
You don't know me or as far as I can tell anybody else on here.
You have solved this conversation about the merits of great cars, because all you seem to do is be aggressive towards others. You're proving you don't have an opinion worth listening to. I'm glad you're getting a McLaren. Now maybe you'll sell your Ferrari and go away.

 

Ditto!!! The GT2 class of the North American ALMS series is amazing - would love to see Macca in there mixing it up with Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette & Bimmer. Would be lap after lap of eye candy.

 

Great, then I assume you are on the waiting list already for the car, since your thick rimmed glasses can't differentiate between good looking wheels, and horrible looking wheels.

 

You win the best post of this thread!