Interesting article. http://jalopnik.com/#!5760248/how-ferrari-spins
Meh, it's no worse than Ferrari suing the clubs, or P4/5C project, or a limo made from a real Ferrari, or a funeral home for making a Ferrari shaped/inspired urn to fulfill the dying wish of a young boy, or......and it goes on and on and on ad nauseam.....
Well, I cant say I am shocked...but in all fairness, I do think a lot of manufactures DO take or provide their "best" cars for this reason. But being the LAMBO owner I am and staunch supporter..I can say that if you look at all the tests doen by others on the Lambos...it has been consitently BETTER times then the factory publishes for the cars.. I first HAND can say for example..the 2010 LP670-4SV, factory says 0-60 3.2 and top speed of 212MPH.. My SV has documented NUMEROUS 0-60 in ALWAYS under 3,0, the BEST was a 2.8 time run. As far as top speed, I have posted prior, 221 consitently ( on a controled area of course)...thats for the lawyers out there. Yes I love Lambo, but any and all cars that are enjoyed and we have fun are OK with me..
This is NOT a brand thing, this is the problem when there is an acrimonious, yet symbiotic relationship between the car manufacturer and the "media". The "media" is content driven and the mfrs need someplace to tell the world about their latest creations. A bit of, you scratch mine, I'll scratch yours goes on everyday. I mean , come-on! EVEN IF THEY HATE EACH OTHER, both parties have an itch... . Even when there is no advertising to possibly corrupt editorial, things can go wrong. Anyone remember the Isuzu roll-over case against Consumer Reports? In the case of Chris Harris, it sounds like a big rant, perhaps it's all true, partially true, or some other ulterior motive that we'll never learn about. Harris makes some very serious allegations that can't or haven't been backed up, either by scientific results, or even passing anecdotal evidence. Yikes!! It's his opinion and how he feels, but hasn't backed it up. He's only placed a bit of doubt about the whole review process. I have a lot of personal experience with the process of using media, buying advertising and submitting product for review. It's a huge leap of faith when you send you very expensive product to a magazine and expect that they will take all the care to ensure that the product under review will be fairly reviewed. No product is perfect, NONE! A reviewer needs to pick his nits, but the editors need to be respectful and balance against its positive attributes. Sometimes the business relationships sour between the editors, or magazine's (on-line) sales dept, which leaves the unsuspecting public at large to take the articles at face value regardless of rhe behind the scenes shenanigans. I've seen bad behavior from the press before, first hand. I don't know what to make of Chris Harris' comments. Mr Harris' rant it very well can be not as stated. Or it could be worse that he stated. Here's the rub, he has no proof of it other than his word. Could it be that there are other factors that are not seen here, that his rant can be the result of a small hand full of people that represents the large organizations, and not official policy of the parties involved. Anyway, too bad there is no real 100% proof to Chris Harris' allegations, which he seems to imply Ferrari's factory press cars might be ringers, and not what the customer is buying. WoW! Words are powerful. Chris should be careful. I suppose that Ferrari has scratched Chris off the Christmas gift list and anymore press events.
WHY should CHRIS be careful if he is giving his opinion and speaking facts//? Oh YEA he wont be able to put on a BUY IT for OVER MSRP "Kiss their ass" list..?
There's the Roy we all know and love. Your last post had me wondering if someone had hijacked your account! It is what is as far as I'm concerned. In the big scheme of things I don't really see where it matters much. If someone buys a car and it doesn't perform exactly as the magazine or manufacturers numbers say is there really a recourse? It could be argued that the factory has a right to prep the cars they provide. What's so wrong about that. It could also most likely be argued that the difference was due to environmental or driver differences. What I can't see is Ferrari trying to control him driving a customer's car. Just exactly how does one go about doing that? I can't think of anyone I know that would let the factory tell them to NOT let anyone else drive their car. That seems pretty absurd if you ask me.
LOL..was just my response to VIC'S words..like we should all be shaking in our boots that we DARE say something bad about a Ferrari in FEAR of being thrown off their BS list to buy a car ..
Not really. We had the press car LFA here and it went to a local dealer for service before it was handed on to the magazines. I drove the same car here in Redmond, and I drove it again in September and it felt the same way, just like the SV I have now and as far as I know, the only work ever done to that was the routine checks to make sure everything was working properly. There as no special team with the car and I can't believe there were any special tuning instructions. When TopGear filmed a recent segment they were going to use my SV if the factory's demo wasn't available, Lamborghini didn't care all that much either way but just wanted to make sure that whatever car was used was at street optimum, no different from how any owner who get their car. It makes sense for Ferrari to keep close tabs on their cars as there is a lot riding on the results, but over-tuning or two different setups is definitely not cool. The good news is that it's out there now and Ferrari will have to do something. It's out everywhere, on every forum I can find. This is one of those articles that will have legs. And if Lamborghini ever did the same thing, they too should be called on the carpet.
Roy, the problem I have with his rant is where are the explicit facts? I realize he has a bone to pick with the factory or someone within the organization, but he doesn't have facts to back his allegations. He is free to give his OPINION, but that's not the same thing as facts. He may very well have a legitimate gripe, but he should've backed it up.
While this happens with some manufacturers to some degree, Ferrari is an entirely different monster. Mostly this is because most manufacturers for press vehicles utilize one of the two large press vehicle services. Ferrari does not. The fact of the matter is that until my fellow members of the media stop acting like addicts afraid of the supply being cut off, the manufacturers will continue to get worse. (And it works both ways -- manufacturers often play to the media too much and customers too little.) All it will take is for the major magazines (of which there are really only about 15) to basically say "no thank you", and Ferrari changes its behavior. Unfortunately, that won't happen. Not everyone is willing to look a manufacturer rep in the eye and tell them "I'm sorry, but irrespective of what YOUR COMPANY would like, this is the way I'm testing it, because my job is to drive it like a customer would. " And this is EXACTLY what I told a Jeep rep during on-road testing and then the same to the Land Rover program manager the following day during off-road testing. Each tried to lecture me on going beyond the "safe speed designated for the test" (30mph for on-road!!!) The head of the NW Auto Press Association told me I was making the manufacturers angry, and I said "I don't care." Luckily the Suzuki rep kept telling me "faster", because his car could handle it! We had a great time.
I take his written word as "FACT"..of course..he is a bona fide press person...lets turn it around..what if he said just the opposite..wrote an article that the new F car was as FAST as a space ship..all the F car owners would be jumping up and down showing off his "printed press word" SO JUST becuase his "printed press word" is NEGATIVE about F car..does not mean we dismiss it and throw it out...only to accept it if it is good news.? NOT to mention, WHY THE heck would he print info that he KNEW to be in-correct and open himself up to a certain for sure Liable case..I am sure his story was checked for legal ramifications by his employeer prior to any printing...which is standard norm for the industry.
You can take it as fact if you wish, but there are no facts to hang your hat on! There is no direct comparison, no data, nothing. Harris using just seat of the pants data doesn't count. I actually sense that there may be something hankey pankey going on between the factory and the press at large, but it's still not fact. So until the numbers come out, by someone, it's just BS all the way around.
The best case for how critics work in any industry: Courtesy of food critic Anton Ego (a very appropriate name) in Ratatouille: "In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so."
You bring up a good point. I can't argue if the LFA is or isn't a great car, however we've long suspected that the sales reports of 150 cars all spoken for were phony yet none of the journalists dare ask if it was true or not. It was only on the forums were you could find any mention of doubt. They were all afraid of Toyota/Lexus.
Funny you should mention Lamborghini. Bob Wallace had openly stated in a past interview that they would prepare "special" press cars just for the journalists.
Yes, they do have a press fleet versus a demo fleet, most of the time, but I've always been under the impression that it was wear and tear related. No manufacturer can allow any car going to the press to run less than optimum while I can't imagine that the demo fleet wouldn't be as critical. Then you have the issue of colors and options. I'll ask the service guys if they were ever asked to modify a press car in a way that differed from street cars. I think they will answer honestly. That would be a hell of a conspiracy to pull off because press cars end up at so many different dealer service departments before they go out. Easier to pull off if there are "handlers". What I hope doesn't happen is this thread turn into "Well they do it too..." as I think shame on anyone, regardless of brand. If someone steps forward about Lamborghini then shame on them too. We all want credible data, regardless of who it's from. Roy is right. Lamborghini published numbers are always worse than optimum to avoid press embarrassment. Winkelmann told me that they get a boost in the press when the magazines beat their numbers and it would swing in the opposite direction if the numbers were worse. They are meant to be "At least ____"
Tom, It's the law. The product needs to meet published spec, so it's nothing special for Lamborghini to meet or exceed a spec. I take from your comment regarding Lamborghini that management is proud of the fact that their cars tend to meet or exceeded a spec by a bit wider margin more consistently? It's good engineering practice to add a buffer to allow for manufacturing tolerances (these do exist). My former employer added margin as routine. Ferrari shift speeds for the Scuderia can sometimes be less than the 60 ms spec (i read that it can shift as fast as 40ms). <<haha, read it in the press>> . The spec in the press releases I've read is only 60 ms. This thread is slipping into brand integrity, but my point and what I've eluded to is how the review process itself is not transparent at all. There seems to be a lot of hankey pankey and the truth may never be known. Chris Harris needs to step up and back up his OPINION to make it fact or just shut up. You can bet that EVERY manufacturer has their side of the story, bad and good experiences with the press, and conversely the other-side has spoken out against Ferrari, which is how this thread began.
VIC, I dont think this is turning into Brand Loyalty...of course I have to admit, I am happier it was brought up with a F car rather then L car. HOWEVER the fact remains, regardless of the brands, regardless of what you "think" is Opinion or Fact...if it is F car, if it is L car, if it is P car..it IS A PRACTICE of "Switch and Bait" to the consumer in the highest form of "trickery"...IMO If a manufacture builds 400 cars a year or 4000 a year...and when it comes time to have "Respected" press release publishers write about the car..YOU DO NOT provide them with "differnet variations" of a "Public for sale" item that has been "tuned up" to the highest possible performance for testing..AND IF you did, I would still be OK with it if the "tweaking" was made public knowledge and HOW you, the end user could do it to your OWN car from the Dealer as well. FYI, from experiance, I KNOW that the Lambos can be "tweaked" by the ECU computer, runs hotter and faster BUT it will be out of range for guidelines to meet emissions requirments. Does it get done? I dont know if it does or not by Lambo...but if it does, just as much shame to them as any other manufacture that attempts to manipulte the results of a "standard" public for sale car... Also, since you have "in print" that you have read the F car shifts at 40MS...do you consider that FACT or OPINION..? You must have some "hope" that it is correct or you would not have added it to your post? But PLEASE use caution, because if you cant back it up with me FACTS.....I might have to sue you for "printing" false information...LOL LOL
Oh come now, what you are saying here is that you want anyone that has anything bad to say about Ferrari to "shut up". That's fine, you don't have to hear it. Instead, stop listening. It is obvious that Chris wrote this in a state of mind that it just had to be gotten "off of his chest". I hold hope (yeah, hope) that Chris comes back to the table with "exhibits" in order to prove his case, otherwise, he's opened himself up to serious career trouble, not to mention libel and slander. Why would he take that risk? Considering the way Fiat has positioned itself with the GM and Chrysler deals as of late, it is apparent to me that they have GOOD lawyers. I wouldn't mess with them if I didn't have it together. Nobody is that stupid, which is why you don't see articles/blogs/rants like this every day. For the record, I would be pissed at any manufacturer that did this.
======== Agreed! There is a lack of transparency in the review process, and this strong accusation from Chris Harris has diminished the credibility of the factory AND the press. My opinion, of course! As I've stated multiple times, Chris Harris' comments would be meaningful IF He had hard proof.. If you are reading this Chris, show us the data! Make a documentary.
Car manufacturers have been doings this for eons. I don't think that auto-companies supply outrageous "ringers", but I do think that they go to extraordinary efforts to make sure that they are setup correctly for the conditions and are supplied with a vehicle that performs to published specifications. Car & Driver pizzed off Ferrari so bad (because of a less-than-flattering review) that they stopped providing vehicles to them for an extended period, forcing them to procure customer vehicles in order to do reviews/tests. Software companies legally restrict you from publishing performance benchmarks you may perform, so this is not specific to the auto-industry. See: http://www.eff.org/wp/dangerous-terms-users-guide-eulas
Car and driver pizzed off F car ?? NO say it isnt true.... maybe cause they printed the REAL truth of these WAIT on the list car IF YOU are lucky to get one WITH a little LUBE as you are bending over to make sure the tires have air in them..?
