458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

My MSRP on my 458 was $269 so no I don't expect to lose very much on this transaction either. I guess we'll see.

 

We obviously don't know, but I would not be very optimistic. On the other hand, California is holding up quite well.

 

To give you an idea of the market in the UK a good friend of mine does very much what you do with changing for the newer model, he bought a new 16M with a $15K discount despite Ferrari saying they were sold out, 9 months and 800 miles later he lost around $30K.

 

Is that why you spend $300,000, to impress your neighbor?

I am in the market for a McLaren, 458, or ZRI (with significant interior, motor, body changes) and can tell you what worrie me -------servicing the McLaren. A Ferrari and McLaren are like two brothers, excelling at the same sport but doing it a bit differently. We can debate doors, carbon fiber, name,. etc., but if a engine light comes on, we ALL will start panicking and looking for the nearest dealer who could very well be 500 miles away. Best

 

I hate to say this but... to a large group of exotic owners...the answer is YES. Or more to appease their own feeling self worth, accomplishment, ego or fantasy.

Buying and owning an exotic to many is a dream come true. It's a statement that you've achieved something and can finally buy that shiny toy you wanted but never got as a child. Why wear a Rolex when a $10 Casio does the same thing?

To ignore this influence in why we spend huge amounts of money on these machines is also wrong. It's not JUST the performance we crave. It's the essense of what that vehicle means to us that matters. That includes how it makes us feel about ourselves.

After all, you can make or get a car that goes just as fast to 100 MPH for 1/5th the money you spend on an exotic. They are truly pointless machines when you just look at the numbers.

Why else would we buy them and then stick them in our garages driving them "occasionally" (usually to show them off at a car event or with relatives or comrades) just to resell them a few years later? Look at the amount of Scuds on the market with 2000 miles or less.

Exotics are to men what fancy handbags are to women who never use them but keep them for just those "special" occasions. Those designer bags hold just as much stuff as your average JC Penney bag but to those women, nothing means more than having a Gucci or Vitton bag to carry around at that special event -- or knowing it's sitting in their closet to be shown one day.

We love them because, quite simply, they make us happy for the reasons I've stated above.

 

Don't take this personally but how many miles did you put on those Ferraris? I don't buy cars with resale the most important factor. I drive my cars and I worry about the Ferrari community's mentality that a car with 25K miles is basically "used up".

 

That one is simple, I don't like changing out batteries.

 

Well, for the price difference, you could pay someone to change those batteries for you for the next 10,000 years.

 

True, but then when you try and tack on the cost of my time to deal with it, the number is closer to 500 years.

 

By reading most bdelp post. I think he is a very wise person. What he write has some truth to everything. I really enjoy reading his comments. We can all learn something from you, Thanks.

 

You are still young, my son.

 

The are all kinds of owners out there and the one you have describe is the guy who have just acquired some money and needs to show it. He/She will learn and get more confident of himself. For him, a Ferrari is probably a better bet as his neighbor like him can only recognize a Ferrari or Lambo. Is this customer the bulk of American super car owners, i don't know. For us that is usually the first time super car owner that buys either a used Ferrari or Lambo. A McLaren or a 458 will never be on their radar as they are new models.

 

No, I think it's deeper than that. Sure, there are some superficial people who just want to show wealth. But, there's a lot of ways to do that.

Wanting an exotic car is really something deeper. It's a mixture of romance, lust, and fullfilling a life long dream. It's as if we are drawn to it by some mysterious internal force where we will never be happy until we've gotten what we want. We may not be able to sleep with a super model but we can buy one of the sexiest cars on the planet.

The Mac will appeal to those who have "been there, done that". And, that's fine. It's no surprise to me that a lot of Porsche owners are looking at them. There's been little above the 911 over the years for them to lust too. The Mac is fast, logical, and purposefully designed -- attributes you would give to the 911. If the quality of building and durability is similar to Porsche, I'm sure they will get a lot of sales from previous Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin, and Lambo owners. Again: been there, done that.

And I guess that's my point. It's unlikely a first time exotic buyer will search out the Mac first on his list. But, a second or third time buyer will.

That's going to be their primary market. And, I'm sure they can find 1000 of them a year to buy them even at $300K a pop out the door.

 

+1 very wise and a great guy as well...

 

Don't know if it is posted alreay??
the first new Mclaren review
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvi21SFsf5c[/ame]

 

I don't know why you would say the Ferrari Community. Maybe you should not judge people by things you don't know. I drive my Ferrari 10 to 15 thousand miles a year . I don't know that many that put more per year on their exotic.
Unless you want people to judge you by your hair , skin color, name or what place of worship you frequent maybe you should think before you generalize.

 

Ain't that the truth. That's also why Ferrari owners have a general reputation as posers. Ultimately, nothing wrong with that: you like jewelry, so be it. Yet it's amazing how much of a feeling of personal worth is invested in those cars. We have seen raw displays of insecurity all over this thread. I doubt many women identify themselves with their jewelry so much.

Now, I personally neither respect nor understand the motivation, but who cares?

As to performance, I think you underestimate the importance of that factor to the "mystique" of the brand. It shows up on track days, when some Ferrari owners clearly think that the rules of the road don't apply to them, b/c they are in a Ferrari. I go to Ferrari track events less and less since the amount of inconsiderate behavior is the worst there. Again, this is just a minority, but it's a very visible one. It's again raw ego on full display.

It obviously works both ways. if you go to non-Ferrari track days, many try to show you how big a poser you really are

 

"It shows up on track days, when some Ferrari owners clearly think that the rules of the road don't apply to them, b/c they are in a Ferrari."


Lots of egos at track days. If a guy thinks he deserves to be faster, he won't let you by. The answer is: stop doing track days. Go racing.

 

+1

 

Clearly, this thread is not for you. You should avoid it. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

Another day, another bullying attempt. Why does this not surprise me?

 

This would be a great thread on a McLaren forum but due to the constant Ferrari bashing and Ferrari owner generalizations and now clearly derogatory rhetoric toward Ferrari owners, isn't about time you move it over to McLlaren Forums or wherever McLaren is congregating these days.

You guys have strayed quite a bit from your originally stated goals, although I believe that your intent has been clear from the beginning, but I think quite a few of us have given you the benefit of the doubt and that is a good thing but your right it is time to move along

 

Well, what can I say. It's a public forum. I want to to talk with other Ferrari owners about the new McLaren. If my opinions about some Ferrari owners bother you, don't read them. What do you care what I think?

 

Disagree, clearly you love the MP whatever its called but realize many of is here dont care for it so trying to convince us it the bees knees isnt going to work. I could care about performance, the Mac looks boring, even Steve Sutcliffe admitted its clinical and unemotional, more than enough reason to pick to the 458 in my opinion.

However I wish you well with Mac ownership, attempting to force your views on here is really doing yourself no favours at all, especially as indicated in prior pages you are capable of good constructive debate.

 

I am not trying to convince people who clearly don't care for it about anything. Especially if the only criterion is looks. I could not care less. I only want to talk to people who are considering both for similar reasons as mine.

As to clinical and unemotional, it's not clear to me yet what it means: so far it looks like it's all about sound. If that's all there is to it, I am willing to give it up (and I bought my Maserati GTS for sound alone), if the rest of the car is supple, interactive and effective on the track. I am giving the Macca the benefit of the doubt, given the underlying technology. If the car makes all those numbers like the GTR, though, I will sell it quickly, and either go back to Italia or wait for 458 Scud.