430 F1 or Manual Tranny?

which is better, f1 or manual tranny? thinking of acquiring a 430 and deciding which version is better. any advise? thanks.

 

One is not better than the other mate.

Drive them both and decide which one is better for you.

Good luck and be sure to post pics when you have your 430 in your garage.

 

It rises from the ashes like the Phoenix to live again and again...

 

Give the guy a break : its the first time the question has been asked this month !

 

Seriously, try the search function on this forum. This topic has been discussed numerous times.

 

It's sacrilege to me to buy a car like this with an automated tranny, but it's obviously the overwhelming choice. And it definitely shifts quicker than you can achieve with the gated manual, so you can shift like Michael Schumacher from day 1. And used prices are pretty much the same for both trannies.
On the negative side you lose the mechanical connection with the car (and the fun factor IMO), add A LOT more complexity to the car, and with the car out of warranty, it'd get astronomically more expensive to fix any issues.

It might be hard to test drive 2 Ferraris (F1 and manual) back to back, but you should know what you want. I only give the edge to F1 in competitive driving, but very few owners actually do that. I can tell you the manual tranny (a Graziano unit) shifts great, and clutch is just about perfect in feel, take-up, and effort. You have to get used to the gated shifter, but you get used to it in an hour or so, and it's lots of fun. Oh, and if you want a manual, this is it man; no more manual Ferraris, therefore this is the first and last for me . Good luck.

 

Same transmission and clutch in manual and F1 F430s. Only the shifter mechanisms and clutch T/O bearings are different.

Taz
Terry phillips

 

Great help for the OP who is asking a serious question. Thank god for folks like Terry (and others) who take the time to qive a nice clear and crisp answer. (TERRY KUDOS!)

 

the value of the manual will hold better than the F1. Since Ferrari stopped making them on the 458, I believe more people will look for 430 manuals over time.

 

it is not that much more expensive.. as people said the transmission are the same.. it's just one has a different device to make the gear changes.. that being said that device could have issues... but it's not common

 

I've been considering the same question as I am also considering a F430. I am only interested in a particular color combo and there is about 15 coupes in that color combo on the market with only one manual transmission. I'm on the fence regarding transmission choice but it seems like with comparable prices, there are simply more choices in the F1 transmission. One criteria is to get a near new low miles example and there's a few of those in F1 mode. I have a feeling that I will end up with a F1 car just because I have more choices to select from.

The manual shifter is very classic Ferrari and is more involved and probably more fun. The F430 is the newest and most powerful (except F50 and 575 and maybe others?) manual transmission equipped Ferrari that we can buy. For some reason, when I see the gated shifter in the F430, it looks dated and out of place in that super sleek and high tech interior. It looks more at home in the 360 and is classic in the F355 and older. However, if you buy a F430 in manual, you can always get a F1 style shifter on newer Ferraris since that's all they come with. If you buy a F1 F430 now, you'll need to buy older Ferraris to experience the gated shifter.

The F1 transmission has a notorious reputation for chewing up clutches and rumor has it that 10K miles is the cut off for a need for a clutch replacement. A few members on this board and on 6Speedonline were pretty vocal about the longetivity of the F1 trans/clutch, some with over 20K on their first clutch. The good thing about the F1 clutch is that it can be interrogated prior to purchase with the onboard computer diagnostic system. I've examined a few cars in the West Coast with clutch wear at 20% and that seems to be an average for 07-09 cars (I haven't looked at older models). I love the look of the F1 paddles behind the flat top F430 steering wheel flanking the yellow tach, it's very race-car like and when I day dream about a F430, invariably, I fantasize about snapping at the paddles. I blame Colin Farrell and his F430 spider on Miami Vice.

 

I've owned two manual Ferrari's. It's a lot of fun. For a while. Then it got old. But that's just my opinion.

Mike

 

NS- The 599 (620 hp) and early 612 (540 hp) were both available with manual shifters. Rare, but they are out there and have considerably more hp than an F430 (490 hp), as did the 575M (515 hp). Numbers from the owners manuals.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Don't forget California can now be specified with manual - something they said they would never do. Wouldn't bet against 458 manual if there is a Market - which there isn't!

 

Quite true. Over 80% of all 360s and almost 90% of all F430s were ordered with F1 so choices are severely limited if looking for a manual.

Not so much. Mileage potential of both F1 and manual are the same. Either can be abused into premature failure and both can be driven properly to the same very high mileage (*way* more than 10K). The most important factors in clutch mileage are also the same for both types -- correct initial installation & adjustment along with proper driver technique.

Technically correct but the information gained is of limited value. If all original settings (e.g., PIS) from new installation are entered, the clutch wear percentage number gives an approximate (maybe +/- 15%) percentage of wear. Without all original settings for comparison, the readings are effectively meaningless. Even the skill and experience of the technician doing the measurement play a large role in the repeatability and accuracy of the readings. Essentially that means unless it's the same SDX computer in the same shop which originally installed the clutch from new, those clutch wear percentage numbers are almost worthless.

 

Go to your local dealer. Meet one of their salesmen. Tell him you are a serious buyer and would like to test drive both. The decision will be clear afterward.

You shouldn't let maintenance costs affect your choice.

 

I think this may be a Euro only option.

 

I really agree with this. I'll throw in "resale" values also. Who cares? Are you buying this for yourself or the next guy you're going to sell it to? Yes, 6 speeds are rare. Why? Because most people ordered F1's. Duh!

Buy the system that lets you drive the car with the most enjoyment. Forget all the technical stuff. What's the point of owning the car and worrying about it? If you really thought that way, you'd never buy a Ferrari anyway.

To me, the enjoyment of the F430 is the amazing speed. It was engineered around the F1 to get that speed.

If I wanted a more classic feel of shifting I'd buy an older car that was designed for the 6 speed.

But, that's just me. Again I say buy the one that makes you enjoy the ride best.

 

I think it is worth mentioning that the F1 system in the F430 is about an 8th generation system that benefitted from all the hardware and software upgrades made since the introduction of the 355 with F1. There were three software versions for the 360/CS, two for the 575M, and one for the 612 before the F430 version was introduced. This does not count multiple hardware changes made to F1 systems, all the improvements of which were incorporated into the F430 system. So the F1 system is pretty polished in the F430, and, like someone said, the car was pretty much designed around it.

So take all the F1 horror stories with a very large grain of salt. Problems with earlier systems were addressed with the F430 and service departments are much more familiar with trouble-shooting and repairing F1 systems than they were in the past.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Of course I was providing great help. Informing the OP to a useful tool on this forum called the "search" function. It's little link on the top left hand of the site. Click on it and type words such as F430, F1 Manual...etc and this is what you get:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304813&highlight=f430+manual+f1

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295389&highlight=f430+manual+f1

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=293098&highlight=f430+manual+f1

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236972&highlight=f430+manual+f1

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=232782&highlight=f430+manual+f1

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212975&highlight=f430+manual+f1

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216149&highlight=f430+manual+f1

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187131&highlight=f430+manual+f1

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183416&highlight=f430+manual+f1

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=175385&highlight=f430+manual+f1

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168174&highlight=f430+manual+f1

 

I tested both back-to-back and I highly recommend doing so. Shouldn't be all that hard to arrange as there are plenty of F430s in stock. The comparison very strongly makes clear that the two are, er, *different* experiences. In my case, the decision was clear, and that decision was that the choice of 6X vs. F1 was (believe it or not) not a deciding factor for me. I very much enjoyed them both.

These cars spin to redline VERY fast in at least the first few gears. In the 6X, you barely get your right hand back to the wheel and then it's off to the console again. That's an important factor in the experience, aside from the 150ms (or whatever it is) shift time of the F1.

Regarding the process of getting used to the gate...I think this is a non-issue. If you haven't driven a car like this before, the bigger learning process will be getting used to a car that spins up and spins DOWN in an instant. That means that not only is heel-n-toe essential on downshifts, but throttle-blipping is needed on upshifts as well if you want to be smooth. I think this is one reason some people tire of the 6X over time.

 

Very true but I found I can really get my right foot in tune with what the motor is doing during shifts in my 430. Certainly makes for a lot of involvment and very rewarding, but I would be the first to admit it is not the easiest manual to use. It is set up perfectly for heel/toe downshifts and high rpm blips sound better when I make them as opposed to a computer IMO. But, let's face it, how many people, even Ferrari owners, are proficient at heel/toe shifts and otherwise synchronizing motor and gearbox mechanicals? Not many. Ferrari sales took a big jump when paddles were introduced. Was it because buyers wanted to "be like Mike" or they just aren't very good with manuals and therefore dislike them?

Dave

 

I felt that the shifter looked a bit out of place as well until I put this piece on it.


http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306541

 

The ferrari f360 was the first ferrari that was "designed" around the f1 system, not the f430..

I would say that the interior of the 360 looks just as out of place as the 430 with the stick coming out of the middle.. I included a pic of my 360 interior here to show it... that being said I still think the gated shifter is cool as hell!
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I prefer the F1. I've got a bum knee, and I prefer keeping my right hand busy up some dames skirt or whatever prospects I can round up at the clubs. That's just the rich prick that I am, and I wouldn't have it any other way.