FIAT Dino/FIAT 2000/FIAT 124.....spyders

I agree. I almost bought the Alfa spider many times, but never did. It is more reliable than the Fiat, without a doubt, and more luxurious. In my experience, the Alfa is much more of a 'cruiser' than the 124. That laid back shifter position and large wheel, larger seats, it all says "sit back and cruise." Now...that little 2 liter can howl with more Italian bravado than the Fiat. But this is why I stuck with Spiders. They are much more delibrate and less weighty, if nothing else more of a classic roadster feel, complete with that sophisticated handling. My personal experience on many many runs in the country with Alfas and Spiders and X's is that the Fiat will run rings around the Alfa in the corners, but the X will run rings around both of them, but the X can't keep up in the straightaways, only to whip their pants in the curves.

But on the Alfa, the worst thing is the frame weakness, right in the middle. IAP has, for years, sold a frame strengthener because they don't carry their weight well. No such issue with the Fiat.

 

Actually in 1973 the 124 Spider came with both 1592 and 1608 motors, I know, I had a 1592 sitting in my driveway and only sold 2 years ago. I bought the car new so I know the motor was not swapped and I still have the owners manual also.

Bought the car Feb, 1974, 250,000 miles and NEVER saw a tow truck and never broke down, head work twice, motor rebuild once, gearbox once (but needed doing a second time), sold it to my daughter's then boyfriend 2 years ago and he drove it around a while before selling it on.

 

I did know that there was a 1592, but I did not know that it actually came in a 124 Spider. Thanks for the clarification.

 

I like this thread... very informative.... not much to say they are both nice cars Alfa's and Fiats... owned many of them.... here are mine and my sons Spiders... both 'luxurious criusers' and they get much attention everywhere they go.

http://fluforum.italiancarclub.com/viewtopic.php?t=3889&start=0

Nick

 

My Coupe was a 71 with the 1608. I didn't know that the older engine was still offered after that.

 

I'm unsure if they were all blue- I thought I remember seeing a mint and stock low mileage 124 turbo on ebay last year that was bronze, and I think I saw a gold one on the road years ago...

From what I heard, the issue with the turbos was that is was just a turbo slapped onto the 124 motor. Compare that with a similar vintage Porsche 924 turbo which had a different head and other internal engine changes, fuel injection system, transmission, brakes, suspension, rims. The 124 motor as good as it was, should have been changed to take the turbo. I beleive at the same time there were batches of 124s that were damaged and re-painted and sold as new which could have been an issue with the poor quality reputation, but I'm not sure...There was a good write-up on the 124 in the Hemmings Sports/Classic magazine (I forget the actual name of the mag, but it's a Hemmings magazine) from a couple of years ago and I think that's where I read the part about the paint. May be worth trying to get the back issue if you are serious about getting a 124 (I still have the magazine at my parent's shore house I think- left it down there when I picked it up while on vacation a few years ago but I wont be down there for another couple of months)

I find the 124 turbo to be an interesting, however it's probably a mechanical nightmare to own (just as the 924 turbo is). The "next generation" of porsche's 4 cylinder turbo car was worlds better (944 Turbo), which even had the timed seperate oil pump to continue oiling the turbo for 1-2 mintues after the car was shut off until the turbo stopped spinning. Many of the early turbo cars would fry the bearings if someone turned off the car right after using boost- oil would get trapped in the turbo bearings as the turbo continued to spin and head up/crud up in the bearing. One of the reasons the early turbos in the late 70's early 80's from 924, 124, saab, etc probably didn't have long lives.

 

Just to clarify. I'd made a statement earlier that I'd seen both FI 79's and 80's with carbs, which I have. I attributed this to inventory management but didn't expand on that enough. The determinant was ultimately what state the car was going to as whether or not they would send an 80 model with carbs. Alabama actually got 15% of all Spiders that came to this country, primarily because of the Space Center in Huntsville, and Birmingham having a more sophisticated car buying public, as it still does. Georgia was also another series of larger Fiat distributors, particularly Atlanta. Legend has it that there is a large, locked, and abandoned parking lot with hundreds of Fiats of every stripe that no one can seem to get access to. I've never seen it, but have talked to people who have. My first Spider actually came from Hunstville, and I've brought several back from Huntsville. I had a 1977 1800 that had been fitted with the 1608, so that was my first Fiat experience ever. I hated the X until I bought one, but I've owned one ever since. I think the 308 Ferrari is the logical progression from a Fiat X1/9, or at least that's my intended progression. I own the 83 Pinin' and a 79 X, and I dearly love them both.

Point being that Fiat did indeed send 80 model Spiders with carbs designated to specific states. Alabama would have been one, Florida, Georgia, states that did not have strict emission statutes (read: The South). California would have required FI in order to pass smog because the 79's had too much smog junk on them.

 

This is my favorite shot of the 83 Pinin. It does not look this tidy as I've put alot of miles on it and it is my favorite of all cars I've ever owned.

I believe that when Pininfarina took over the final assembly in 83 they started using a Momo "prototipo" steering wheel obviously quite similar to the 308. Was wondering if someone could take a look at this an clarify. I'm positive that this is a Momo wheel, but don't know which model.

Also note in this picture the different console from the Fiat Spider. This was the same on the rest of the run. My car was officialy called a "Europa" but they changed it to Azzura in 84 and 85, with 500 super-charged "Volumex" going to Europe only (rather have one of those by far than the turbo because it was designed properly and didn't break). The 83 had unique badging that was the "sailing mast" for Pininfarina. Apparently they either design sailboats or the family was into sailing, as were the Agnellis.
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This is a correct Volumex, the wheel arch flares are standard, as are the wheels which were this car only, as was the badging, on the side and hood. Notably absent is the Pinin' badge usually in front of the rear tire, moved up behind the front tire top on these cars. To me this is the Holy Grail of Fiat Spiders but you could get a 308 for the price of one. They are for sale in Germany with regularity. More of them seemed to have ended up in Germany than anywhere else, only 500 made, and none came to America. The Spider and X1/9 are both still popular in Germany. There is one person that I've known of that actually imported one intact. Word was that it was a monster, and that the supercharger really worked and did so across the powerband.

Also, the door handles past mid-79 were the 'spoon' handles and were the same as on the Alfa Spider. That's the easiest way to tell what year a Spider is from a distance.

Having said that, I believe that the Dino Spider is superior in every way to any 124 Spider and is probably one of the best cars Fiat has ever made, and would love to have one. They really should have done more with that wonderful Ferrari engine. Had they put that in a 124 or the X1/9, they would have been monsters. Instead, they bought out Lancia and put it in the Stratos and turned their attention to the 131 for more family oriented cars and left the Spider and X1/9 virtually unchanged through their entire run, then balied in 1982. However, Fiat will be bringing in cars again staring this year since they bought Dodge Chrysler and will be selling the little 500 and using their platforms for Dodge/Chrylser econo offerings.
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I have a 1977 CS1 that was originally sold in California and re-imported into Europe about 14 years back, completely restored in 2000 with european bumpers and fitted with a carbed 132 2000cc engine. The rear end is relatively short so it accelerates very vividly. On highway that is no issue as the engine is quite silent at revs and exhaust and wind noise easily goes over the engine sound.
As a weekend blast to the beach or as a fun car for short holidays it's great - unexpectedly comfortable, unexpectedly quick, very good zippy handling (only 950kgs!) and very easy to live with.
I love it so much that even though I don't use it a lot (happens with 5 cars to choose from and short summers), I cannot get myself to sell it or trade it in. It gives a great feeling and is lots of fun.

On the pic it's dusty, I had some better pictures but those were lost in a HD crash...
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Well, of course I fully agree with you there I was lucky to have my 124 for 34 years and the last 5 years it was parked next to my Dino, after 34 years it was hard to sell the 124 but the Dino is just too awesome and I never drove the 124 after I got the Dino.
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Wonderful example, rare beauty. Are the Campies magnesium?

 

Not even sure, they are super light so I assume they are, I thought they all were. They are MUCH lighter than what was on my 124.

 

I have owned my 1979 Fiat Spider 2000 (carb) for almost 32 years. I have about 136,000 on the clock. It's a bit of a rare car as it was a transition car. It has many of the features that were introduced in 1979 but still had some mechanical bits from 1978. The only unobtanium item is the interior. The seats, carpets and doors are an orangish caramel colour, not tan. Anyone I have ever spoken to about renewing a part of the interior, such as the centre console, just laughs when I show them the colour. I had to replace the diff early on and I've had the head redone once. I also had the car stripped down and repainted about 20 years ago. Other than that, it's been routine maintenance all the way along. I purchased the car in 1979 for $9,600. Aside from the respray and body work, I have yet to exceed $9,000 in repair bills.

I own 13 other cars, including 3 F-cars, an L-car and 2 vintage M-Bs, etc., etc. When I am asked which my favourite is, I always answer that it's my Fiat. Why? Well, 32 years of ownership certainly has something to do with it but the other is that I call it my "go to car". When nothing else works, it does - every time. I love it!

Now, can someone find me the perfect, no stories, no deferred maintenance issues, 2.4 Fiat Dino convertible? I welcome serious responses to that question.

 

Me ? I never said that, I would not guess what my car is worth, I really have no idea, its a driver not a show car.

 

I've owned a 1975 Fiat 124 Spider 1800 since new. Have found it to be solid, fun, and very reliable if service is actually performed correctly, and the service is generally easy.

While the earlier 1600 had the sweetest, eager-revving engine, many consider the '74 1800 the best car overall. It was the last model before the big bumpers and had a larger, torquey engine that would still rev easily. Definitely sweet converted to twin 40IDF Webers!

Yes, the stitching on the original upholstery rotted quickly. Yes, they were prone to rust if not properly treated when new and kept clean on the undercarriage. Yes, the front crossmember could get loose if the bolts weren't checked regularly. Yes, electrical gremlins could crop up if ground points were not clean and tight.

Beyond that they didn't have issues different from other cars of that vintage. Too many were not garaged, not serviced at all, or serviced by folks that didn't take the time to understand them and over-torqued every fastener.

Look for a used one from a dry climate that has an unmolested electrical system and no odd mechanical mods. From that solid base they are very easy to sort.

Bob

 

Late to chime in, but in the interest of accuracy, here are some facts regarding the Fiat Spider Turbo. It is correct that the Turbos were fitted by Legend Industries, but were contracted out by Fiat Motors North America. Cars arriving from Italy were selected randomly to be sent to Legend for conversion, so the Turbo models came in all different colors/configurations. The Turbo cars were sold new through FMNA as an official model. Legend was later forced out of business due to DeLorean going under and stiffing Legend with millions in unpaid development costs on the DeLorean turbo project. It had nothing to do with Fiat.

Also, it is true that no internal modifications were made to the engines as a result of the turbo conversion. However, the distributor was modified to limit advance and the FI system was modified through a serious of mechanical pressure switches to richen the fuel mixture as boost increased as well as providing overboost protection. They were produced in 1981 and 1982 with the vast majority being 1981 models. While the standard car made 98 HP, the Turbo made 120. The more significant impact to performance was that torque was significantly increased -- especially in the lower rev range. While they may not be much faster than the standard car in 0-60 times or the 1/4 mile, they are a lot more fun to drive on the street as the boost in torque can really be felt when exiting corners.

The Fiat 2.0L engine is very stout and could easily handle the paultry 6 PSI of maximum boost. This was not a problem. The main issue was related to failure of the IHI-sourced turbo primarily as a result of U.S. consumers' lack of familiarity with turbos at the time. This resulted in people running boost on cold engines, not allowing the turbo adequate time to cool before shutting down the engine, etc. There were also problems with the Legend Industries supplied exhaust manifolds, which tended to crack.

Of the 700 or so that were built, many still survive intact. Others survive with their turbos removed due to the aforementioned problems. I own a 1982 that has it's original set-up still in place and have never had an issue, despite taking it several on trips of 300+ miles each. Like all Italian cars, they can be quite reliable when properly maintained.

John