Here are some 360 pic's . First up 308 crank front 360 behind . 308/360 noses . 360 flywheel front and back . 360 flywheel next to a 308 !! 360 front pulley front and back . Then 355 TB's on a 360 head they go striaght on ??? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Yes thanks for sharing those pics Dave. Where are you at in terms of trying to mount these goodies on a 308 block? I would have a go at putting the crank in a 308 motor but I also like the idea of dropping an entire 360 motor on a 308 gearbox like you've suggested in other threads. I think ultimately one may not be able to use the stock dry sump pump setup but what I worked out with my 308 dry sump system could apply pretty easily to a conversion 'cause all that woud be required is an extra pump section on the scavenge pumps that I've already packaged. Could you summarize the differences between the cranks? 1. Snout length is different but same dia's? 2. Is everything the same on the rear meaning a 308 flyweel will bolt right on? I think I can buy a 360 crank for $1500 from the typical parts guys. The problem is the flow of the 2V heads which is why possibly dropping an entire 360 lump on a 308 box is the way to go. What are your thoughts/plans on all this? cheers, Sean
I'm just about to put my std motor back in the car . Once that's done and sorted I'll spend some more time on the 360 project ! When I looked at modifying a 308 . I quickly realised that it takes alot of dollars and you don't really get much gain without a racing power band , that's NA wise !!! At the time I think only Nick was doing big displacement mod's with all custom parts and they were very expensive !! Subsequently there have been the 355/360 hybrids , which had I known about at the time I may have gone down that path . Rifledrivers motor is I'm sure very well executed and it would be great to know more about it ? 360 crank , I know it just drops in as I've done it . As to what needs changing on the crank I'm not sure . I had read the nose needs shortening , but from looking at it I'm not sure . A custom flywheel is required as I think the bolt pattern is different . It would be neat to use the crank , pistons and liners . Although it's not that easy as the oring step on the liner is higher up ( For more block support I think ? ) so requiring a double oring and spacer ?? The 308 deck height is less than the 360 so I'm not sure whether you could use the 360 piston as it might interfere with the crank ABDC with shorter rods ?? Pistons would not be ideal as they are 5 valve and you would use a 4 valve head . To get the 4 valve head to flow requires a fair amount of money to be spent ? Trying to put 360 heads on a 308 bolt is not practically possible . Cams are closer together with smaller cam gear , so puts the cam timing all out ? there are also three drain holes to the block instead of our two. So maybe trying to graft a 360 motor onto a 308 box wasn't such a bad plan after all ? The big issue with the 360 motor is Ferrari moved the oil pump to the side , so they could get the motor lower in the chassis . That's were our diff is ???? So the plan is to try and rotate the oil pump on it's existing chain drive to a possition below the crank ( as per the 308 drysump motors ) and then replumb it ?? Not sure this is possible , but that's the challenge ?? Once that's done then I think it's just a matter of sandwhich plates ??? Custom flywheel , new headers and a new deck lid if you want to retain the 360 inlet plenum ?? That's where the 355 TB's come in as then I think you can get it under the existing rear deck ?? I'm sure there are 10 000 other things that I haven't thought about , but that's part of the challenge ? I'd love to get it to a point where I could run it on an engine stand like yours ?? For $1500 you should be able to buy a complete fire motor ??
how the heck would u do that?? yes the old 2v does have its limitations (great for a 35 year old motor) but if you really want the 5 valve head just drop a whole 355unit in... you will have the power no NA 2v 308 can replicate and the unit is lighter with and extra gear. but the real kicker is the motor (at the crank) mounted 8 inches lower! stop by carl's place ar BH and check out the one he did. cheers hf
I have a layout for dropping one of the newer Chevy motors (the dry sump one) on the 308 gearbox but going for boost seemed easier and more cost effective than doing that. The cost of the Chevy motor really added up even without all the custom parts. I'd do it if some Chevy guy wanted to sponsor me by donating a complete engine ready to run . I thought a 360 conversion might be "easier" but reading Dave's post is turning me off it and got me leaning towards boost if I want more power from that package. I saw a 355 conversion in person. It's pretty neat but the cost of the lump and the gearbox was a bit of a killer. I'd feel like I might as well be building a kit car if I went that extreme also ... yes I still think my 308 is only "slightly tweeked" . On the 355 conversion I saw the hubs were almost sticking out past the quarter panels so it was going to be a bunch of work to make the car look like a sleeper ... seemed like massive fender flares would be required. They had used the entire rear suspension also which would seem to make sense on a project like that. For that kind of work a trashed 355 would probably be a better starting point ... and make it look like a 308 . I have this 348 that I'm ready to sink my teeth into but just wanted to make sure I'd completed the "easy" 308 mod's . If a 360 crank dropped right in that would be "easy" but I don't want to get into making a flywheel right now for the minimal power gains ... and the head work gets real expensive. The really cool thing I want to do with this 348 is make the whole hatch open up like an F40. I just really like seeing the motor and gearbox like that ... makes me want to take something apart for no good reason . I've avoided taking a torch or welder to my 308's ... this 348 is already trashed so it's really an open book. Once I get started on it I'll start a thread in the 348 section. cheers all, Sean
although i prefer NA motors boost is the biggest bang for the buck. while i was at a NASA race a few years ago at Big Willow i did see a yellow race F360 with some sort of chevy motor in it. hard to beat the create vette motors also i suppose. i dont know what class it ran but i gather the NASA rule books are pretty loose. machining and modify a different engine block to mate on to that strange 308 wide tranny case and oil sump with the transfer case would be a real nightmare. i have this buddy with a does all sorts or mid engine conversions and says of that F360 motor that sitting in the corner of his shop..."all that thing does is make noise and dosent push the car down the road very quickly"! he prefers the Ford GT drivetrains or Vette motors match up to a riccardo transaxles for his mid-engine cars. personally i dont think i can put anything elso into an f-car other than another ferrari motor but each to their own. i do think there is something magical of the 355/360 motors despite the lack of torque down low. I love the banshee scream and the way they pile on the revs. imo there are few things that make motor special besides the power output. the 55-308...most likely its the same car...(red gts?). i spoke to carl about that car, he said if he had to do it all over again he would have not grafted on the rear 355 suframe and suspension. too much work as you have mentioned and yes i did notice how much wider the rear track is. he says it would have been much easier just shoe horning the motor in and cutting one member in the rear for the transaxle to poke out. i too think it would have been way cool to have it as a sleeper. I do recall there was a 308 GT4 in canada with 348 powertrain conversion and another really hot looking track 348 powered 308 GTB with black stratos wheels in europe. so they do fit using the standard 308 frame and suspension. does anyone know anything more about that wicket looking track GTB and interesting motor transplant.? one thing that makes the 348 conversion easier is the cable shifter box. Keep those gears churning up in that noodle of yours… cuz we know power never sleeps cheers hf
My car is a Euro GTB drysump and I want to keep it that way . That's where turbo's and SC don't tickle my fancy . Yes you can take them off when you are finished and put the car back to std , but what if you blow the motor up ???? This is why I thought a whole nother motor would be a good plan and why not a 360 lump while you are at it ?? The north/south route is a big job and then you are going to make permanent changes ? Trying to put the 360 motor onto the 308 box at least means you can pull it out and put the std motor back in ?? I intend making drawings of all the adaptor plates , then Sean you could just replicate them on your NC machine . The flywheel is not a big issue to me it's the headers that are daunting time wise . Although mke with his V12 made it look easy ??
Cool! Whether it's a 360, Chevy, or Ford, I'm game for making up those goodies. As I've told many, I'm an "equal opportunity offender". If my 308's would have blown up I would've moved on to something else but they seem very stout. I'd actually like to find out how well one of these Chevys or Fords hold up. Aren't there some hard core "American" iron/aluminum tuners here that would like to see one of these lumps in a 308? I would do what Dave mentioned ... share what needs to be made so others could be "free to offend". My plan was always to do it with no permanent mod's. What I wanted to do is go to some gathering with a Chevy lump installed, and then swap it back for the next gathering just to spin people. I know the fact that I'd have a 308 that would be faster than just about anything else around, new or old, is meaningless to most. I'll never forget asking the question, "Wouldn't you like your 308 to be faster?" and I was just shocked by the number of people that said "No, I don't care". As time has passed I realize now I should feel sorry for these guys ... they end up selling or getting bored with their cars prematurely ... 16 years for me and it keeps getting better! cheers
For those that have asked check out post #45. There's some pretty good pics of how the runners have been fabbed. I'll gladly post more but that seems to show what one will be faced with. Then there's the throttle linkage . I canned the dual throttle cable idea that I was originally thinking about back then. cheers
Here's a question ... isn't there a performance advantage to the engine being transverse mounted? Doesn't the tq of the engine on the motor mounts actually push the rear end down vs. tweeking the car sideways in a longitudal install? cheers
yes... changing the direction of the drive rotation 90 degrees is a tad less efficient through a beveled gear and pinion. this is one of the reasons most econoboxes are transverse fwd... i dont think its has that much to do with the motor mounts but stiffer mounts will improve the respones. real race cars have solid mounts anyhow...lol
Like Edwardo said I was thinking there was an actual "moment" happening that plants the rear ... might get cancelled out somewhere I don't know. Yeah ... solid motor mounts ... I mentioned doing some for my 308. My 911 has 'em and I think some of the feedback I got was the car would fall apart from the shaking . Luckily I stumbled upon the Mustang mounts before dissintegrating the chassis on my 308 . I really like them but I see the right rear taking a lot of punishment and when you think about it for waaaay too long you realize that one takes most of the load 'cause of it's location relative to the differential. My car sleeps on a lift so it's easy to monitor things. I was thinking "why is that motor mount sagging/compressing and none of the others are". I'm at the point where I need to do mounts for this other car ... I might do solid. The urethane ones are not harsh at all ... hmmm. Here's a couple pics. I'm going to be getting rid of all that line when I redo the fuel rail setup. I also need to finalize the throttle linkage geometry. I'm not quite getting full throttle. I'm also thinking about integrating a cam/roller mechanism similar to what's on the factory Kjet throttle body which makes for more throttle sensitivity during the initial pedal movement. I'll probably put a sealed needle bearing in the block that the main pivot is on ... don't want that sticking. It's so much easier to do these things with the engine out of the car. The day of "loading" is coming closer though. I've got a gearbox pretty much ready to go. I decided to rebuild the rear suspension of the car that this motor is going in and will probably do the front before I really put 'er thru any paces. She'll need grip . BTW, my second 308 has a nickname that's stuck with some people that come over: "The Hairdresser" ... I'd be insulted if I wasn't the one that started calling it that ... I think it's hilarious but I like to laugh a lot . cheers Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
You can see the center pivot better from this side. When all that fuel line is gone it will really clean things up. Too bad the airbox will cover most of it. I guess you only run without an air cleaner when you have a big boy sponsorship . Come to think of it I wonder at what point they do throw away the air cleaner ... only F1? Indy? Anyone? I'll also see what I can do about the GM looking wire harness ... that's gotta be annoying the heck out of a few people by now ! cheers Image Unavailable, Please Login
I like the masking tape too ... you guys are getting a real front row ... not staging it sorry to admit .
in a 308 with the 4 low mounted motor mounts, that moment gets canceled out by the high mounted support rod from the rear valve cover to the bulkhead member. notice how the motor mounts on modern transverse fwd cars have at least one mount moved way up high in relationship to the output flanges of the diff? this is to counteract this moment eliminated the need for the extra support rod. some now have only 3 mounts total.... no wonder the 308 weighs as much as a tank. nice looking TB's...i expect them to sound wicked ! all the best rs
Sean, I see you have piped the intake manifold water passage with male a threaded unit meeting a hose which I assume attaches to a pipe which meets with the other head. Did you pipe in the stock coolant temp sensor or anything else in there?
Hey all, Here's some more pics after re-doing the fuel lines ... really cleaned things up and it's going to make fab'g the air box quite a bit easier. John I posted a pic so you can see what's underneath. That's the stock fuel injection coolant "tee" assembly. The factory temp sensor is in it on the other side. Thanks for the feedback guys ... always nice to know I'm not talking to myself ... it would be a shame if I was . When I fire 'er up again I'll try and remember to take some video. I just don't think a recording gives the real thing justice. My "alpha dog" 308 with EFI sounds way fierce and even though I've posted a few videos of it I still see silly posts about "carb cars sounding better" . cheers all! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I'm definately paying attention! I'm a ways behind you, but following. I made up the fuel rail piece to span the 2-3 widening on the TBs the other night and got 5mm threaded rod to hold the TBs together with the new spacing. I just got 1 1/4" 90 aluminum elbows and 1 1/2" alumium pipe in the mail from McMaster and have the first chunk in the lathe just playing around a bit. I also started cutting out aluminum plate to match the shape of the intake manifold gasket. It will be at least a year before I'm ready to make it run. But yes, I am watching and listening!
Cool ... I like inspiring others to "do more" ... you guys inspire me ... duck.co., st@ven, Edwardo, smg2, Pizzaman ... and of course the "Master" ... mk e . Brian H. if you are going with the same spacing I can loan you my fixture that I used to position everything while I welded it up. I think ferraripilot's thinking about throwing away the Weber toilets ... maybe others will follow . Cheers all!
