64165 86 412 5 Speed sold at auction- CHEAP

For those of you complaining about the lack of 412 5 Speeds- The car Craig Brody had in Weston Florida- the car that he REFUSED my offer of $42,000... sold for $34,600 ( Around $38K out the door with commission and bidding fee)

Very nice car with stunning Serra Blue paint- Excellent- interior- a somewhat murky history with a couple of collisions and 400i front lenses, notchy 2nd gear synchro and a bunch of filled in rock chips- - But I think a really good car and a STEAL for that money.

Hope it went to somebody here!

http://www.auctionsamerica.com/events/feature-lots.cfm?SaleCode=FL11&ID=r541

 

I am guessing that the sale price of $34,650 includes the buyer's commission. If you add 10% to a hammer price of $31,500 you get $34,650. Most of the other selling prices appear to include the buyer's commission.

 

Was the hammer price $31,500?? Geez that's way too cheap for such a nice car!

 

I have missed out on two 400 series cars when I made offers that were refused by
the seller who then took them to auction. In both cases the auction price was
close to what I offered so I believe my prices were fair. It is a hard market. -sc

 

So this is two recent examples of sellers walking away from bids that were higher, in this case far higher, than what the cars sold for in auctions.

In the case of the NJ 400i, it appears to have been a reluctance to see what a PPI might turn up.

Why do you suppose that this seller was willing to take so much less than what you offered? This car had a pre-sale estimate of $38,000-$42,000 and did not appear to be a no reserve auction.

Did he call you to see if you were still interested either at your bid or even a lower bid, before he consigned it to the auction?

 

Nope.

He was impossible to deal with- made up a bunch of stories about the car- But it was a really nice car- Since he was FIRM at $45K I decided I did not care for the Blue dash and I really did not care for the USA markers on the front fenders... When I added up the cost of tires, Brakes (they were soft) front lenses and having the front bumper and air dam resprayed it was suddenly becoming a $60K car- But really if he had been nice to me I probably would have overpayed- because when it comes to these cars being a bargain hunter can get expensive.

But $35K out the door for that car is ridiculous. Good for the buyer! ALL the other Ferraris did VERY well at that auction- so it's not a matter of the market- it's a matter that these cars- the "unloved Ferrari"... are still historically unloved. I wonder if that will change?

 

i thought the Mondial was the unloved Ferrari ? ...or was the Dino 308 GT4 ?

actually, at $40K, the TR isn't getting a lot of love either these days, or 360's at $60K...what about a clean title, 10K mile 612 at $95K ?

i do think the issue goes beyond this series cars...but will it change for this series ? apparently not for the injected cars in the US any time soon...

 

So after paying his 10% seller's premium he netted $28,350 and left nearly $14K on the table not counting his auction entry fee and transport costs.

I'm not sure what you meant about the "murky" history on the car but the combination of the Tim Stanford receipts (if real), a clean title and a thorough PPI would tell you everything that you need to know about the accident damage repair and mechanical condition of the car to make a purchase decision.

Who knows why the guy was difficult with you and didn't follow up with you as he was headed into the auction. Sellers can get entrenched in their own mindset but in this case he would seem to be the perfect example of cutting off his nose to spite his face. Since there is no ongoing relationship after the deal is done, he doesn't have to like you to take your money.

Very strange behavior for someone who has the word "Investment" in his company title.

 

Mondis are coming back- 308 GT4's - I think- are on the way up... We'll see about our cars.

 

Are they "unloved" in the US because they wern't officially sold so therefore only a few ever got seen at dealerships/shows back in the day so no real following? As it seems over in Europe they seem to get much stronger money.

 

I think that it has more to do with an American perception that 2+2 Ferraris are not as desirable as the 2 seaters in general coupled with the fact that it was viewed as a radical, but blander, design departure from cars like the Daytona, the 365GTC/4 and the old 365 GT 2+2 body styles.

Over the years nearly all of the 2+2s have gone through their periods of being unloved in terms of price. We saw that with the 250GTE, the 330 GT 2+2 (particularly the 4 headlight version), the Queen Mother and so on. The depreciation of the 456 and the 612 2+2's has been vicious as well and they will continue to fall in price for quite a while I think.

The 400 series seems to still be in that period and maybe it will take until they are all more than 30 years old before they start to become at least somewhat more appreciated. One thing that they have going for them is a low production volume compared to the later, Montezemolo era Ferraris. There were fewer 400is built than Daytonas, and even adding up the entire body style from 1973 365 GT4 2+2 through the 1990 412 amounts to only 2,854 cars made.

I think that European drivers have a greater appreciation of fine 2+2s, be they from Aston Martin, Jaguar, Maserati or even Ferrari.

 

Of course- They did not have to live with 30 years of anonymous GM and Chrysler cars with Pininfarinas EXACT profile terrorizing the local parking lots.

The co-opting of this elegant design by econo- sh*tboxes in the States has largely dulled the impact of the car.

 

I wouldn't called them unloved.. People generally are uneducated about this model so the natural human reaction is to scoff and downplay. I think its becoming something of the past and even Jay now comment's on peoples positive reactions and interests to his new acquisitions...
Any magazine article of the period in America,, R/T or C/D, only had high praise for these car's. Nothing has changed.
Its the essentially the first production car with the automatic that gave it its branding.
Look at all the modern machinery now... most Sports and GT's all have automatic and 4 seats or 2+2 !!!

Robert.

 

Whatever the reason, these may be one of the few assets that has limited downside price risk and therefore there is little reason to delay buying one if that is what you want. They are probably not going to get any cheaper and delaying only causes one to miss out on enjoying these fantastic cars waiting for prices to fall when they may actually cost more in the future.

After 11 1/2 years of owning my 400i I still get a smile on my face just seeing it in the garage at night and it still gives me a thrill every time I fire it up. How many other things that you have bought in your life that still do that after such a long time?

 

I think they've definitely bottomed out in the UK. A few years ago they seemed to be selling for £5k less than now. In Mainland Europe there's nothing under E20k ! And some restored are asking £70k !!! I'm sure that wasn't the case 4 years ago?

 

Well there are guys in the States asking $60K also-

Most of these are at the tail end of their depreciation curve- then there's a period of stasis- where the prices are thee same for years- like we saw with the 308, then slowly the "Classic" motoring thing begins to take over.

As with any Ferrari- it's a FERRARI and that is a magical thing, and while these will never approach Daytona desirability or prices- I would imagine at some point it will take the better part of $100K to get a good one.

 

It reminds me of the response the CFO of a private company that I worked for made when I suggested that their valuation of the stock they awarded to employees was lower than what market valuations would be:

"Well, John, I hope that you think of yourself as a Buyer and not a Seller!"

In that vein, low prices are good for us buyers in the crowd. Not that I am in the market for another 400i, I have already got mine............

 

Try two- it's more fun!

 

There are at least 3 markets for these cars in the US:

1. Nice condition, properly Federalized 400/412's with manual transmissions.

2. Nice autobox cars.

3. Everything else.

The manuals, as you know, are quite rare and desireable in that they preserve the intended performance. These set the high limit for the model. Then there are the crappy, thrashed versions that are either not properly Federalized or have been butchered badly at the lower end.

This car was in the top catagory and leads me to believe that the model isn't going to languish in the cellar of old worn out obsolete exotics. And yes, the model overall was among the least desireable of Ferraris, but maybe, just maybe, their time is due.

 

They were real; I asked Tim if he worked on the car.

 

Yes Tim had worked on the car for sure.

The "Murkiness" was the seller's refusal to scan and email the bills- no idea how the car had the wrong lenses- no indication when the accident was and what was replaced- no receipts for paint or interior work- So a really nice car, but some unanswered questions that made me and EVERYBODY ELSE on the planet pass at $45K.

But geez- at $35K it's a heck of a car!

 

Waiting for the buyer to show up here and tell us all about it!

 

...waaaay back I learned: "A bird in the hand".

A reasonable offer, based on a market correct value should be a no-brainer. Sellers should do the same homework that buyers do...what's the asking...and what's the number it's really trading for? seldom the same.

Too many people think it's still a million dollar house...even after it sells for $800k...

What people want for their car, how LONG they have been trying to sell it, and the FACT it's ONLY worth what someone will pay continue to create stories like the $45k firm car in Florida that sold in the 20's.

Fangio never drove your car to a third place in the Targa Florio dude. Get real about a legitamate offer......

Some people can afford to leave $14k on the table...however, even wealthy people don't waste money. Resources are to be protected, money being one. That being said:

I think the 'out of tune' with the market people got a small check and a big lesson.

The other lesson...if you don't like the market...Don't sell....simple.

Having said that...Somebody is driving a nice Blue 30k mile 5 speed right now, bought at auction in Atlanta....excuse me while I get a new box of Kleenex. It's hard to see the screen without it...

 

FWIW I was told Craig Brody bought it cheap did a little work and was looking to score a huge profit margin on it. A wrecked 412 is expensive at $35K IMO.