Help! 360 Service

I know this is a redundant question to all but I have to ask. I own a 2000 360 Modena F1. I have never, ever ever had problems with this car. it runs strong, shifts hard and its great. I noticed some hydralic fluid leaking under the engine so I thought, what the heck. I will take it to the dealer for my 30k service. I was quoted $3160 for the 30k service at the dealer. This seemed very reasonable. Now that the car is there I have been told it needs two tensioners and bearings, meaning an extra $2000. They also said I need a new clutch. 85% worn. Another $5000. So my total bill is well over $10,000. The car has never given me any problems. Does this seem reasonable? Was the $3160 quote the bait and switch technique? I dont mind paying a little premium for dealer service but we all know how easy the work is and I dont like be treated like a sucker. Any thoughts? Am I just being ridiculous?

 

I'll be they are buying parts from Ferrari stock sources. What you want to do is tell them you want Hill Engineering bearings at $414 per pair which will shave some off that $2000 price. Daniel sells them here:
http://www.ricambiamerica.com/index.php?cPath=600_519&osCsid=sccvfi7qjugiiblv1pvs5acit7
They may kick about it, threaten to void any warranty, make you sign a waiver, etc. but if you insist then they should do it. Many here feel Hill are much better products than OEM.

There have been some threads questioning the accuracy of the clutch wear indicator. At $5000 it doesn't seem like the type of discount you might get when "they are in there doing other things, so its a labor savings".

 

Thanks and will do. I spoke to an EX Certified Ferrari Mechanic and he stated that it is highly unlikely that the bearings are bad. They are no different than those of many Asian cars whose bearings are good for 200k+ miles. He also stated that if the clutch wasnt giving me problems, I should leave it alone. I want to get the bearings done regardless just because they are there but I just dont like the feeling of being taken advantage of. Your thoughts, any thoughts are appreciated. Do you know the what the OE cost is for the bearings?

 

If you have no record bearings/tensioners should be done - despite all the talk of belts failing it is these items that tend to be the root cause - as noted below fit Hills

Have they shown you the printout showing the clutch is 85 % worn ?

 

As you say the original quote seems reasonable. Arguably the bearings ought to have been included in that quote as they ought to be replaced along with the belts. Arguably they are recommending the replacement of the tensioners as a preventative measure and haven't actually diagnosed them as being weak or having failed. You could ask them to clarify that for you and make your own mind up based on the peace of mind versus cost?

Clutch? Different issue of course but again price quoted doesn't seem outrageous? It doest sound like you're necessarily getting a discount for having it all done together so you could just keep driving until she needs replacement.

 

Thanks for the responses. It is very helpful. I just didnt like the feeling. I felt like I was being taken for a sucker. A $3160 bill went to over $10k. I will probably have the tensioners and bearings changed anyway just for the piece of mind. I was told if the clutch isnt giving me problems to leave it alone. Basically, as long as it doesn't skip gears its fine because of the way the clutch wear is gauged. Theres really no way of telling until it actually goes bad. This would be dependant on the way it was last dialed in. I'm still wondering what the hydralic fluid could be?

 

Does Ferrari have a list of items that is included in the 30k service? Judgeing from previous posted list of these, it looks like the bearings shoud be included in the service?

 

Yes and so do you in your owners handbook - however there is no obligation as I understand it for any maintainer to follow these 100 % - some do less - some do more

 

A. Ignore Buxton. He's a troll.

B. It was a bait and switch. They knew they were going to hit you up with bearings and tensioners when you got there. The bearings should be done. The tensioners do not need to be done if they are of the late style and they are not symptomatic.

I do like Hill products but there is nothing in the world wrong with the OE bearings for the 360 and the fact remains Ferrari dealers are contractually required to use Ferrari parts so you might not have a choice.

C. The clutch price is reasonable if in fact they are quoting you an all up price and this is not another bait and switch game. Ask them if it includes a new throw out bearing, pilot bearing, clutch position sensor & resurface flywheel. I am betting not and once the trans is out you would be getting another phone call.

 

Well said.

Part of the reason is that over time and experience the real needs of the cars in real world use get to be better known so there are ligitimate reasons for the service items to evolve. And even then everybody does not see all the same things so the evolution takes divergent paths.

 

Rifledriver thanks, I tend to agree with you. They saw me coming. I told them yesterday, cancel bearings and tensioners and just do the belts, the original $3160 quoted cost. I just missed their call. I am sure their gonna tell me they have found something else wrong with the car. Looking at the 30k service list, it looks like the belt tensioner bearings should be included as the engine oil/filter service etc. They wanted an additional charge for that. Is there no integrity left in the world? I am all for everyone making a buck but theres a line between that shouldnt be crossed. To think I did this only to establish a relationship with this dealer that is 250 miles away. It cost me $500 just to get it there.

 

From Ricambi;
This is a full service kit for the 360, using uprated tensioner bearings from Hill Engineering.

This kit contains the following:
1 x A/C BELT
2 x AIR FILTER
2 x CAM GASKET
4 x CAM SEAL
1 x OIL DRAIN PLUG SEAL
1 x OIL FILTER
2 x OIL SEAL RING (CRUSH WASHER)
2 x OIL SEAL RING (CRUSH WASHER)
1 x POWER STEERING BELT
1 x POLLEN FILTER
8 x SPARK PLUG O-RING
2 x TIMING BELT
2 x TIMING BELT TENSIONERS (HILL ENGINEERING)
1 x RIGHT CAM COVER GASKET
1 x LEFT CAM COVER GASKET
1 x WATER PUMP/ALT BELT


This is what most shops use during a 30K service.

 

Thanks to all. Well I just got off the phone with my dealer and to my suprise my car is done with belts only??? I am to get a detailed list from them when I pick up the car. I guess they are not too busy. They received my car very late Wednesday, by 10am the following day had all that info for me and my car is done and ready for delivery. 30k service in a day, what is included from them I am yet to find out. I hope my car doesnt blow up when I drive off.
Ingpr, thanks for the list. I am gonna be sure to take it with me when I pick it up.

 

Oh!! forgot to mention. So when I called them I had decided, what the heck, put the bearings and tensioners on but from hill engineering where I could get them for about $400, so I could shave a little off the price of the $2000. Well she informed me that my car was done and I would incur the extra labor and thats why she encouraged me to do them while they were there (reasonable) because there would have been no added labor. So with that said I asked, so the bearings are $2000. Needless to say, no clear answer. I would think a Ferrari dealer would have more integrity. I have had only one experience with my Aston dealer on my DB9. BIG DIFFERENCE. Everything was written out for me from the begining. No suprises.

 

If done at the same time the bearings could have been replaced for parts price plus minimal additional labour but to do them now would involve a lot of work and retiming of belts/cams hence the high charge.

Also the 400 odd for the Hill Tensioners is actually only for the tensioner bearing not the bearings plus Tensioners. For some strange reason the term Tensioners is almost always used by members here when referring to the tensioner bearings and this can lead to confusion.

Hope the car is boxed now anyway. Cheers!